36 replies to this topic

[Mercules]

Fuggles, on 08 May 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

I'm guessing your a light pilot thatis tired of the flak for capping?

What you described is tactical capping and is fine, it's your job. If anyone gives you grief ignore them.

The other type is the type that gets people fed up. Alpine assault, me in an assault going 60, I spend 4 minutes walking with ny team, don't see anything. Bam, base is being capped, it's 25% by the time I get turned around and about capped before I've covered a full tile. That is a waste of time for both teams.

Which would have been avoided very easily by someone moving into a position to.... you know... look the other way.

Do you know how many times I see fairly fast Centurions and Dragons running towards where the main shindig is supposedly going to happen? Me in my Jagger sighs and goes, "Fine I'll go check over the ridge then." apparently to my cats since PUGs still need some voice. Lo and Behold more than half the enemy team is right down there in "the wrong place".

Lefty Lucy, on 08 May 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

Earlier today we were base capping in 80 kph centurions. All the enemy had to do is look right, or send a scout down the only other possible path on the map, and we'd be found and countered. They never did.

You only get capped if you don't scout. If you don't scout, don't complain about getting capped.

I know. I mean I can see them missing my Spider or Centurion as I sprint from cover to cover... but Centurions are almost as big as Awesomes. I've done it in the Centurion's brother mech, the Trebuchet, which is just as big. I used to carry a Capture Assist module because I left it set to "Any" match and it was useful on Conquest but I found I walked past far too many oblivious teams to not put it to use.

[jeffsw6]

The Strange, on 09 May 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

Then a few guys on the other team start yelling at me to just finish the cap, because it's "lame to kill the last guy".

They are already dead and assume they can't win, so those selfish players just want the match to end quickly so their mechs are available for use.
Those players should learn to buy more than one mech.

[Mercules]

Keifomofutu, on 09 May 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

As others have said people throw around the "defend your base line" but they are really being dishonest. The truth for a cappers is most commonly along the lines of "cap their base before they can cap yours". If you're off capping every game you aren't defending your base either are you?

Utter BS.

The best way to defend your base is to actively find their fast movers and counter their movement. If my team has "left" covered then I go "right" in my light and don't just run straight ahead looking forward ignoring the covered areas near me. I wander over a ridge here and peek down that way there while zooming in. I find the enemy and engage flankers as well as letting my team know they are there.

The truth of the matter is that about 80% of the time both teams are focussed on one main area of the map and I could be lazy and not look, but I know the time I don't is the time someone will slip past me.

So....

My first goal is to find the enemy and be sure no one is slipping around the outside. Second goal is report enemy movements. Third goal is disrupt enemy. Capping falls into that third goal.

[Keifomofutu]

Mercules, on 09 May 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

Utter BS.

The best way to defend your base is to actively find their fast movers and counter their movement. If my team has "left" covered then I go "right" in my light and don't just run straight ahead looking forward ignoring the covered areas near me. I wander over a ridge here and peek down that way there while zooming in. I find the enemy and engage flankers as well as letting my team know they are there.

The truth of the matter is that about 80% of the time both teams are focussed on one main area of the map and I could be lazy and not look, but I know the time I don't is the time someone will slip past me.

So....

My first goal is to find the enemy and be sure no one is slipping around the outside. Second goal is report enemy movements. Third goal is disrupt enemy. Capping falls into that third goal.

Cool hope you brought your own light mech to "counter their movement". 3 out of 4 of the classes aren't 150km/h light mechs. DIFFICULTY OF GETTING TO CAP<DIFFICULTY OF BABYSITTING CAP

As Sesame Street puts it "one of these things is not like the other".

Enjoy your higher Elo really. If you want easy mode have fun hanging out with the poptarts.

To put it in meme form:
Oh you cap tourmaline and alpine all the time?

Tell me again how totally skilled and tactical you are.

Edited by Keifomofutu, 09 May 2013 - 08:38 AM.

[Mercules]

Keifomofutu, on 09 May 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

Cool hope you brought your own light mech to "counter their movement". 3 out of 4 of the classes aren't 150km/h light mechs. DIFFICULTY OF GETTING TO CAP<DIFFICULTY OF BABYSITTING CAP

I tend to play Lights, Centurions, Dragons, and Jaggers. I can do this in a Jagger. Why is it you seemingly can't?

Keifomofutu, on 09 May 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

As Sesame Street puts it "one of these things is not like the other".

Or, "I don't understand or know how to do this so neither can anyone else."

Keifomofutu, on 09 May 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

Enjoy your higher Elo really. If you want easy mode have fun hanging out with the poptarts.

According to the forums they are in all levels of play. According to my own experience they are already in my level of play so nothing will change.

Keifomofutu, on 09 May 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

To put it in meme form:
Oh you cap tourmaline and alpine all the time?

Tell me again how totally skilled and tactical you are.

I think you mean:

[Ngamok]

Keifomofutu, on 09 May 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

Cool hope you brought your own light mech to "counter their movement". 3 out of 4 of the classes aren't 150km/h light mechs. DIFFICULTY OF GETTING TO CAP<DIFFICULTY OF BABYSITTING CAP

As Sesame Street puts it "one of these things is not like the other".

Enjoy your higher Elo really. If you want easy mode have fun hanging out with the poptarts.

To put it in meme form:
Oh you cap tourmaline and alpine all the time?

Tell me again how totally skilled and tactical you are.

Other than Tourmaline or Alpine, Base capping doesn't really happen unless there is a 4 man group in lights with cap accelerator running for the enemy base (which happens but rarely). Most maps, even a slow lumbering Stalker or Atlas can get back unless they are more than 2/3 of the way to the enemy base.

[Mercules]

Ngamok, on 09 May 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

Other than Tourmaline or Alpine, Base capping doesn't really happen unless there is a 4 man group in lights with cap accelerator running for the enemy base (which happens but rarely). Most maps, even a slow lumbering Stalker or Atlas can get back unless they are more than 2/3 of the way to the enemy base.

I capped a team out on River City the other day, in a 5V Spider. They got back before I completed, but then I vanished, circled, and they trundled off to my base leaving a wounded hunchback behind. I got him to step off the base and chase me behind a building, already focussing on his damaged leg, blew it off, then slipped onto the base for the last sliver.

Even in Tourmaline and especially in Alpine it isn't hard to spot and deal with the faster mechs unless there are a lot of them. You don't have to worry about returning to base if you never let them get there.

[Ngamok]

Mercules, on 09 May 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

I capped a team out on River City the other day, in a 5V Spider. They got back before I completed, but then I vanished, circled, and they trundled off to my base leaving a wounded hunchback behind. I got him to step off the base and chase me behind a building, already focussing on his damaged leg, blew it off, then slipped onto the base for the last sliver.

Even in Tourmaline and especially in Alpine it isn't hard to spot and deal with the faster mechs unless there are a lot of them. You don't have to worry about returning to base if you never let them get there.

Yea, it's easy to get back to base in River City. Any mech can turn around and go back before you even take the base to 50% unless they are all running at 50 KPH are are sitting out in the middle doing nothing. They didn't, it's their fault. The larger maps it's easy for 1 light to hide and then go for base once the enemy has committed to 1500+m and can cap most of it before having to leave. I've seen lights to this on both larger maps, then leave to go back to the main fight if a mech or two come to get them.

But if you are doing this, you are doing it for tactical reasons. If you are running straight to just cap race and troll, that's different.

Edited by Ngamok, 09 May 2013 - 09:35 AM.

[Keifomofutu]

Ngamok, on 09 May 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

Other than Tourmaline or Alpine, Base capping doesn't really happen unless there is a 4 man group in lights with cap accelerator running for the enemy base (which happens but rarely). Most maps, even a slow lumbering Stalker or Atlas can get back unless they are more than 2/3 of the way to the enemy base.

Exactly my point really. On the non-huge maps it actually takes a concerted effort to cap and win. Just like it takes a concerted effort to kill and win.

Assault is borked on the large maps because it no longer takes an organized effort to win it just takes one guy with cap accel.

People go back to defend the base on forest because it's worth their time and they won't be 2.5km from the action when the light eventually runs off.

Edited by Keifomofutu, 09 May 2013 - 09:43 AM.

[Mercules]

Keifomofutu, on 09 May 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

Exactly my point really. On the non-huge maps it actually takes a concerted effort to cap and win. Just like it takes a concerted effort to kill and win.

Assault is borked on the large maps because it no longer takes an organized effort to win it just takes one guy with cap accel.

People go back to defend the base on forest because it's worth their time and they won't be 2.5km from the action when the battle eventually runs off.

12 vrs 12 is coming. We will need those bigger maps. Until then we deal with it. It is harder on Tourmaline but not impossible to proactively stop a base cap. Actually that map has me running lights more than fast Mediums simply because of the distance I have to cover to flush out cappers.

[hammerreborn]

Keifomofutu, on 09 May 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

You're going to lose either way. Either you leave the front line in your big mech and your team is outweighed at the fight or you just let it cap.

One of these options still gives you good C-bills at the end one of these does not. And no there is no real way to prevent that light from getting to your base in a pub match if you are not also in a full speed light.

As others have said people throw around the "defend your base line" but they are really being dishonest. The truth for dedicated cappers is most commonly along the lines of "cap their base before they can cap yours". If you're off capping every game you aren't defending your base either are you?

How hard is it to defend your base when you are all carrying at least 3 weapons with a 1600m range. You being bad has nothing to do with the inability to defend. In upper base on alpine you can just turn around from your camp spot and launch ppc after ppc at me in your base. All youd have to do is have one guy lean right and one lean left so I can't use the base as a shield and bam, dead, and it'd take you I don't know, all of 200m at the most to do it.

Just admit it, you're bad, you should feel bad, and you're lazy.

Edited by hammerreborn, 09 May 2013 - 09:51 AM.

[Keifomofutu]

hammerreborn, on 09 May 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

How hard is it to defend your base when you are all carrying at least 3 weapons with a 1600m range. You being bad has nothing to do with the inability to defend. In upper base on alpine you can just turn around from your camp spot and launch ppc after ppc at me in your base. All youd have to do is have one guy lean right and one lean left so I can't use the base as a shield and bam, dead, and it'd take you I don't know, all of 200m at the most to do it.

Just admit it, you're bad, you should feel bad, and you're lazy.

What percentage of your posts occur while you are AFK on the cap square again?

When the game starts giving me 200,000 a game to AFK on my own square I'll consider it. Until that time enjoy your jacked up Elo and your matches full of poptarts. Thanks for keeping some of them out of my games.

Edited by Keifomofutu, 09 May 2013 - 10:14 AM.

[Dakkath]

Cleaned up the thread a bit, please remain on topic.

[Keifomofutu]

hammerreborn, on 09 May 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

How hard is it to defend your base when you are all carrying at least 3 weapons with a 1600m range. You being bad has nothing to do with the inability to defend. In upper base on alpine you can just turn around from your camp spot and launch ppc after ppc at me in your base. All youd have to do is have one guy lean right and one lean left so I can't use the base as a shield and bam, dead, and it'd take you I don't know, all of 200m at the most to do it.

Just admit it, you're bad, you should feel bad, and you're lazy.

Wait wait wait. Your argument that Alpine is fine on (EDIT:)Assault is that ONE of the bases is easy to defend(not that you're right). I mean really? Guess if you spawn south you're just out of luck down there huh.

The assault game mode is currently a joke on the large maps. I just wonder how many more people are going to leave before PGI makes an adjustment to it.

Edited by Keifomofutu, 09 May 2013 - 11:21 AM.

[jeffsw6]

Now that the moderator has noticed the Tears of the Players, maybe they will discover a "trend" and entertain the idea of adjusting the assault capture mechanic. Conquest needs fixing, too.

I'm just going to let all you guys know that I'm a super-genius who has been playing with pretend robots since before you knew what pretend robots were, and whatever you say is wrong unless you agree with me. Especially Neverfar and his Sun-Tzu-ness. Now that I've got that out of my system...

If the match-maker didn't repeatedly build teams with 0 or 1 light-medium mechs, and put them against teams with a healthy number of light-medium mechs, there would be less reason to complain. If there weren't several groups doing 4-man lights and capturing every match, again, less reason to complain. If the CB/XP reward system gave any benefit to defending a base or conquesting resources, there would be ... less reason to complain! Get the common theme?

The bases on assault should be for two things; what Neverfar describes (dividing the enemy force) and anti-griefing. This can be accomplished very easily by canceling out the bonus for having 2+ mechs in the enemy base, until 4 or 5 minutes have passed by. There will still be a need to defend your base, and you still won't know if you are going to run into 1 enemy or 4; but they won't cap you out before a 90kph mech can run from doing his scouting or pew-pewing to go find out.

The 750 resource requirement for Conquest mode is beyond idiotic on Alpine and Tourmaline. It's not even really enough on Caustic but that's arguable. Alpine and Tourmaline are not arguable, it should be raised.

If I had to guess, and I am sure my guess is better than PGI's because they aren't super-geniuses like me (or they could figure out a sane dmg value for MGs and Flamers) I would try changing Tourmaline to ~1200 resources required, and Alpine to 1500 (double.)

However, I don't even think the change should be that simplistic. I think the time required to capture the resource nodes/bases on Conquest should be much larger than it is. A light mech can zip from node to node very fast; an assault can't. I'm not saying that in itself is unfair, but on a make like Alpine, there is no chance you can hunt down the enemy lights and kill them unless you are piloting a light/medium, or they are stupid. You can't do anything useful except battle the enemy assaults and then guard a base if you survived; but by the time you finish killing the enemy assaults, you are probably half-trashed and the 2 ECM Ravens that come to capture your base will finish you off quickly anyway.

Honestly, I kind of think you should have to STAY ON THE RESOURCE NODE to gain resources from it. But... I don't know how that would really play out. Would the ideal strategy be two pairs of resource-gatherers and a 4-man battling the enemy? What about when it becomes 12v12?

I don't know. My point is, nothing has been tried, and it's a ******* beta game. They better start trying **** out PDQ before they release garbage and there's not enough players to support their staff. I am really concerned that I may be investing in cool hero mechs and blablah and there could be no game servers next year. That would bum me out!

EDIT: I FORGOT TO USE THE OVER-POWERED 48 POINT TEXT. It's like a PPC but on the forum!

Edited by jeffsw6, 09 May 2013 - 11:23 AM.

[silentD11]

Keifomofutu, on 09 May 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

Wait wait wait. Your argument that Alpine is fine on (EDIT:)Assault is that ONE of the bases is easy to defend(not that you're right). I mean really? Guess if you spawn south you're just out of luck down there huh.

The assault game mode is currently a joke on the large maps. I just wonder how many more people are going to leave before PGI makes an adjustment to it.

Actually the lower base is great. You have a good view of most of the K-line (which is the best for fast caps), harder to set up a jump behind it onto the base, if you want to go full on pure team base camp there is a great hill behind it to mount it on. All in all, it's very defendable.

That side is just at a disadvantage all over the place if people trundle all forward to the center to bang action figures together TDM style. At which point it loses not only it's base defense advantage but every other one as well. So if you're moving forward like that at all, you're doing it wrong on every level.

[The Strange]

jeffsw6, on 09 May 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

A light mech can zip from node to node very fast; an assault can't. I'm not saying that in itself is unfair, but on a make like Alpine, there is no chance you can hunt down the enemy lights and kill them unless you are piloting a light/medium, or they are stupid. You can't do anything useful except battle the enemy assaults and then guard a base if you survived; but by the time you finish killing the enemy assaults, you are probably half-trashed and the 2 ECM Ravens that come to capture your base will finish you off quickly anyway.

An assault Mech can take a lot of damage and has a ton of weapons and a light doesn't. I'm not saying that that isn't unfair, but on every map except for two any map, there is no chance you can take on an assault Mech in a face to face fight unless you are running an assault/heavy, or they are stupid. You can't do anything useful except scout/intercept, or cap if you survived; but by the time you intercept their lights/mediums your so torn up that the pop-tart/ppc boat assaults are going to finish you off quickly anyway...

Just had to see if it sounded just a dumb the other way. It does.

Each Mech has a role, no Mech will exceed at every role. You get to choose what Mech, and therefore what role, you will play in a match. Why complain that someone else chose differently?