12 replies to this topic

[Terror Teddy]

Yea, title might sound odd.

Speed is life, in most cases. What has made me a bit concerned is how people talking about medium mechs being slow moving at 70km/h and the huge engine ratings everyone tries to cram in.

This problem is three-fold.

1. Smaller engines need external heatsinks
2. external DHS take extreme size and are inferior to internal heatsinks
3. Twist speed affected.

First of all i think it is wrong to add twist speed to the engine since that should be in the gyros and not in actual engine power.

Here are a few ideas.

Gyro Rating Equipment
Add Gyros as a separate equipment that you insert into an engine similar to internal heatsinks.

This means that you can choose what Gyro you want separately. A gyry would be restricted in rating similar to engines so a mech that can use a 130-250 engine can only use a 130-250 gyro.

What would it mean for us as users? Well, we would be able to experiment with more variations of mech design.

Having a slow 100 engine mech with 250 rating gyros would make for a slow nimble urban defense mech.

Calculating weight
Since the gyro IS a large part of the engine it would also be a part of the weight.

The weight would be the power difference between engine rating and gyro. In the above example the 250 gyro vs 100 engine would give a a total engine weight rating of ([250+100]/2) 125 - or 4 tonnes.

Do you want a fast but not OVERLY nimble mech, for example an already nimble light mech that has a 255 engine but use a 150 gyro would have an engine weight rating of 202,5. Thus saving much needed tonnage.

Edited by Terror Teddy, 09 May 2013 - 01:58 AM.

[Onmyoudo]

I agree. You rarely see an Atlas with less than a 360 STD these days, and heavies all move between 70 - 80 kph no problem. Part of this is probably due to most people having Speed Tweak on their best chassis now for that extra boost.

I also like your ideas. It's quite interesting and would make the Gyro crit slots seem a little less like a waste of space in your CT or cockpit, I forget which one it is in.

[Otterway]

Thirded. Excellent idea! It would add a nifty new dimension to mech design...

[Stone Profit]

Gyros have NOTHING to do with twist. They have to do with the balance of the mech. Also, gyros are based off engine size anyway.

[MuonNeutrino]

Stone Profit, on 09 May 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

Gyros have NOTHING to do with twist. They have to do with the balance of the mech. Also, gyros are based off engine size anyway.

That's the point, he's suggesting changing that and making gyros govern agility while engines govern speed. Totally non-canon, totally not the way TT did it, but still sounds like an interesting idea.

[Stone Profit]

MuonNeutrino, on 09 May 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

That's the point, he's suggesting changing that and making gyros govern agility while engines govern speed. Totally non-canon, totally not the way TT did it, but still sounds like an interesting idea.

Why would a gyroscope make you torso twist faster though? Totally unrealistic.

Edited by Stone Profit, 09 May 2013 - 01:26 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Stone Profit, on 09 May 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

Why would a gyroscope make you torso twist faster though? Totally unrealistic.

True.

But so does using engine rating. Any reactor with enough output to constantly power Lasers and PPCs would generate more than enough power to twist a torso or turret at consistent, high rates, be it powering myomers or the electrical motors for actuators.

[Terror Teddy]

Stone Profit, on 09 May 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

Why would a gyroscope make you torso twist faster though? Totally unrealistic.

And when you have a car that gets an engine replacement does the power steering suddenly becomes better?

We ARE talking about giant mechs with fusion reactors.

Flexibility is a good thing and I think it would add another dimension to the gameplay.

[Stone Profit]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 May 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

True.

But so does using engine rating. Any reactor with enough output to constantly power Lasers and PPCs would generate more than enough power to twist a torso or turret at consistent, high rates, be it powering myomers or the electrical motors for actuators.

Terror Teddy, on 09 May 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

And when you have a car that gets an engine replacement does the power steering suddenly becomes better?

We ARE talking about giant mechs with fusion reactors.

Flexibility is a good thing and I think it would add another dimension to the gameplay.

I have no issue with the concept, just the gyro being the thing that makes it happen makes no sense. Also, I doubt at this late stage they would add another method of customizing your mech when they have a system that works just fine except to nitpickers, no disrespect intended.

[Ralgas]

Given to achieve that power creep you have to give up a large chunk of survivability (xl) or lose a decent amount of tonnage elsewhere i'm fine with it.

There is the possibility we may see the return of gyro crits once knockdowns come into effect (if i remember rightly a gyro crit affected hit chance and gave a piloting modifier to every movement of the mech, causing falls if failed)

[Bishop Steiner]

Stone Profit, on 09 May 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

I have no issue with the concept, just the gyro being the thing that makes it happen makes no sense. Also, I doubt at this late stage they would add another method of customizing your mech when they have a system that works just fine except to nitpickers, no disrespect intended.

None taken, nor given, I hope.

Actually, I really just wish Torso twist was a constant based on each Chassis. THAT is what would make most sense, AND would actually SIMPLIFY things. But as you said, probably far too late in the development cycle to change in either direction.

[Ryebear]

Actually disconnecting twist rate modifiers from engine value would be very easy. Having a basic chassis twist speed regardless o engine rating would be the right way to go.

[Deathlike]

Terror Teddy, on 09 May 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

Yea, title might sound odd.

Speed is life, in most cases. What has made me a bit concerned is how people talking about medium mechs being slow moving at 70km/h and the huge engine ratings everyone tries to cram in.

This problem is three-fold.

1. Smaller engines need external heatsinks
2. external DHS take extreme size and are inferior to internal heatsinks
3. Twist speed affected.

1) That's not necessarily a "problem" as I've been told that the tonnages to add the external HS is more or less close to what would normally be there.

2) That's a different mess that point #1 is a part of. I'm not really happy with that either.

3) I swear PGI has it backwards in a sense. Unless the engine seems to affect motor controls and such, this invariably makes absolutely no sense. The only reason they would do this is to make faster mechs much more easier to control at faster speeds. The problem is that with slower engines (the base recommended one is 250 due to how DHS in the engine works) is that you suddenly become "slower" (and I don't mean just speed) than someone using the same chassis with a faster engine. That pretty much makes no sense there. The realistic expectation is that torso twisting is functionally the same with any engine for the most part and the only thing that would change that would be with something like MASC (or some device to improve torso twisting). That is the only way to explain the odd design behavior IMO.

Edit:
There is something else to think about.

The engine rating determines your torso twist speed... and you may want to think of it in terms of loadouts and tonnage. It is possible to "save tonnage" by downgrading your engines far enough to put more weapons on. This is technically "optimal" for bigger mechs (obviously assault mechs). So, the way PGI is "countering" that type of thinking is through this part of the design.

The system as currently constructed doesn't really favor that anyways (due to how internal DHS engines function), so it's not exactly beneficial to go below a 250 rated engine (unless you're a commando, in which you have no choice at the moment). It is part of the entire puzzle that PGI set up here...

Edited by Deathlike, 09 May 2013 - 04:00 PM.