17 replies to this topic

[Esplodin]

Energy:
It always made me wonder how a Standard 100 engine recharged all the weapons in the same timeframe as an Standard 360. Engines just need a recharge capacity - the bigger the engine, the bigger the capacity. So for example:

Each engine has a recharge capacity of 1/20th of it's rating per second.
Each energy weapon needs a recharge rate equal to it's damage, but has a max speed recharge time equal to it's current recharge time. (9 women can't have a baby in a month)

100 engine has a recharge pool of 5 per second. In a 4 PPC Stalker 3F you can have your 40 point alpha, but those weapons will have an increased charge time of 8 seconds before you could do another 40 point alpha.

310 engine has a recharge pool of 15.5. In the same 4 PPC Stalker 3F you do a 40 point alpha, but the recharge pool is enough to support the max recharge rate of 3 seconds.

Missile/ballistic:
Same type of concept, just having to do with feed tubes for ammo.

Obviously this would be another quirk category, since certain mechs were made to boat certain weapons. This could also go the other way. A Catapult A1 would have feed tubes designed in that were made to rapidly move missiles to the ears. This would work the other way too, as moving gauss ammo in a Catapult K2 could take more time since they would originally be made for machine guns.

Edit: One additional clarification. On overheat shutdown, the recharge pool stops feeding energy to the weapons.

Edited by Esplodin, 29 April 2013 - 08:23 AM.

[keith]

fyi most decent players run big engines in their boats. big engines mean max turn rates, and max turn rates over speed. thought that speed does give some advantages, but it is minor compared to the turn rate at the bigger engine sizes. do like the different idea

[Coralld]

Interesting idea, but I like to make things as simple as possible, here is something I mentioned in another thread that could help deal with the high Alpha and boating problem.

Coralld, on 29 April 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

PGI can possibly try changing the heat scale to higher dissipation with lower maximum heat as was mentioned in another thread. Mediums should benefit from this far better then Heavies or Assaults because Heavies and Assaults tend to mount more weapons, heavier ones, more powerful ones, and more heat demanding ones.
Or they can make it so that Lights and Mediums are naturally more heat efficient where as Heavies and Assaults are naturally less heat efficient.

[Roadbuster]

Actually...I like that idea.
It would only work for energy weapons and the Gauss Rifle though.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I had suggested something like this a very long time ago... before the Closed Beta was even open to selected registered Users.

The thing is that my idea was rejected by many people simply because there isn't a BattleTech/MechWarrior precedence for the idea. BT is balanced by Heat, Damage, Ammo, Weight, Slots... but reactor energy was never really part of the equation. I like the idea, don't get me wrong, because that's why I had suggested it in the first place. However, I think there will be much resistance to introducing this kind of foreign balancing agent.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 29 April 2013 - 07:54 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Prosperity Park, on 29 April 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

I had suggested something like this a very long time ago... before the Closed Beta was even open to selected registered Users.

The thing is that my idea was rejected by many people simply because there isn't a BattleTech/MechWarrior precedence for the idea. BT is balanced by Heat, Damage, Ammo, Weight, Slots... but reactor energy was never really part of the equation. I like the idea, don't get me wrong, because that's why I had suggested it in the first place. However, I think there will be much resistance to introducing this kind of foreign balancing agent.

And add in the fact that we are dealing with On-demand Fusion based energy sources. The Mech requires more, the engine just supplies more, there is no limiter in play.

I also thought this would be a good idea way back but I guess the Fusion thing got me as well.

Just as a quick note on the OP, I would even have XL engines, being half weight, would also produce half the energy output, simply so that the system couldn't be gamed by XL engines.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadbuster, on 29 April 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

Actually...I like that idea.
It would only work for energy weapons and the Gauss Rifle though.

Dude... Gauss rifles and heat are mutually exclusive

[Esplodin]

MaddMaxx, on 29 April 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

Just as a quick note on the OP, I would even have XL engines, being half weight, would also produce half the energy output, simply so that the system couldn't be gamed by XL engines.

Well, pushing boats to XL was one of the reasons for the change. XL mechs are much more vulnerable then those that load standards. For some reason in this game there is no concept of glass cannon as it exists in other games. Big pew pew should come at greater risk.

[ICEFANG13]

Because of the Endo+true DHS engine system, almost all good mechs use very very high, at least 250 engines (if possible). I think it would be better if smaller engines received some more love, larger engines don't need anything more right now.

[Roland]

As Keith points out, most boats already run large engines.. not only for improvements to turn speed, but because large engines give you free critical slots to store heat sinks, which is important for energy boats.

[Zyllos]

Esplodin, on 29 April 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

It always made me wonder how a Standard 100 engine recharged all the weapons in the same timeframe as an Standard 360.

Because weapons really don't need a lot of energy to keep them running (even the smallest fusion engine produces a lot of energy). It's the myomer that requires the energy to move, thus the speed.

keith, on 29 April 2013 - 07:37 AM, said:

fyi most decent players run big engines in their boats. big engines mean max turn rates, and max turn rates over speed. thought that speed does give some advantages, but it is minor compared to the turn rate at the bigger engine sizes. do like the different idea

Yup, engine ratings affects accuracy. This is huge issue with engines right now, and is why people play larger engines. If torso twist speeds were a function of the tonnage instead of the engine, you might see people use smaller engines for heavier loadouts.

Like, I am fine with some modification to the torso twist speed being a function of engine rating, but it should be used in those instances where you have grossly over/under utilized an engine for a tonnage.

Like, play a 150 engine in an Atlas should cause a slowdown. But running a 200 in a Atlas shouldn't be that much different than the 300.

The same for the 210 in the Raven. At 35 tons, there should basically be no difference between all engine ratings due to how light the mech is.

Edited by Zyllos, 29 April 2013 - 09:17 AM.

[MAFH]

I like the idea with the energy resource to prevent high alpha builds. Moreover this idea lines up with the Battletech Universe, as it is already described in the books (3rd book of the Kerenski Trilogy states that even a Clan mech isn't able to fire two Gauss at the same time).

[FupDup]

ICEFANG13, on 29 April 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

Because of the Endo+true DHS engine system, almost all good mechs use very very high, at least 250 engines (if possible). I think it would be better if smaller engines received some more love, larger engines don't need anything more right now.

Pretty much this. Small engines are already useless and this does nothing but make it worse. It actually helps alpha boats because most of them already use big engines for various reasons (see second post in the thread).

[Homeless Bill]

I dislike this idea because large engines already have a host of advantages:
1. Speed
2. Increased turn rate
3. More heat sink capacity

I run an XL in pretty much everything because those three things are almost always worth being squishy. There's no need to make bigger engines even better.

I like the concept; I just don't like the things it's buffing.

[Jasen]

Homeless Bill, on 20 June 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

I dislike this idea because large engines already have a host of advantages:
1. Speed
2. Increased turn rate
3. More heat sink capacity

I run an XL in pretty much everything because those three things are almost always worth being squishy. There's no need to make bigger engines even better.

I like the concept; I just don't like the things it's buffing.

XL is pretty much everything? No offense but you must suck at almost everything then or just pug around solo.

I ever caught one of my guys with an XL in anything other than a light, cicada (light in spirit) or a catapult... i don't even know what would happen. (Sure I forgot a chassis or two, but my point is.. if you run an XL in pretty much everything, and you actually run things other than lights... that's pretty bad)

[AimRobot]

Would be better if they fixed all heavy/medium/light mechs armor and firepower cause speed doesnt make up for it.
Lights were a challenge with lag shield / delayed shot and bad hit register.

People just come with excuses like lights are not for brawls but scouting, well people come to kill other people.
And with increased sensor range , uav and maphack sensor. its hardly a surprise where the enemy is.

[Homeless Bill]

Jasen, on 20 June 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

No offense but you must suck at almost everything

Offense was meant; there was no other point to your post. If you're going to be an *******, then just go for it; that "no offense" crap isn't fooling anyone.

I started to get some stats together, and then I realized I don't give a **** what you think. I like speed and torso twisting; you like walking slow and being a jerkoff on the internet. Let's agree to disagree.

[Lefty Lucy]

Jasen, on 20 June 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

XL is pretty much everything? No offense but you must suck at almost everything then or just pug around solo. I ever caught one of my guys with an XL in anything other than a light, cicada (light in spirit) or a catapult... i don't even know what would happen. (Sure I forgot a chassis or two, but my point is.. if you run an XL in pretty much everything, and you actually run things other than lights... that's pretty bad)

Almost all heavy chassis have builds that either require XL to work at all, or are improved by XL engines. I'm not sure about you guys, but I *know* that Homeless Bill and QQ tear it up in the 8-man queue. And they do it with XL heavies. The only mechs that XL engines aren't really great for are Atlases, Hunchbacks, and Centurions, and even then there are decent builds for anything but Atlases that use XL.