72 replies to this topic

[Hellcat420]

Sarsin, on 13 May 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

There need to be some penalty for blowing the top of the heat scale away. If I overheat the bejesus out of my car, it doesn't stop cooking because I kill the engine.

Sarsin, on 13 May 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

There need to be some penalty for blowing the top of the heat scale away. If I overheat the bejesus out of my car, it doesn't stop cooking because I kill the engine.

your cars engine is not a fusion reactor.

[Hellcat420]

Darren Tyler, on 10 May 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

Shutdown occurs when the heat gets dangerously high enough (100% or over) that it STARTS damage to internals.
If a mech alpha strikes 6 ppc's and reaches 150% heat, even if the mech shuts down, there WILL still be damage to internals.

you shouldnt even be able to put 6 ppc's on one of these mechs to begin with. that is the problem.

[ExtremeA79]

Hellcat420, on 13 May 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

you shouldnt even be able to put 6 ppc's on one of these mechs to begin with. that is the problem.

That is a different thing. Some one around the forum has made a thread about have hardpoint sizes or something. Like MW4.
That is actually a brilliant idea, and coupled with this, would make the game better.

[Dirus Nigh]

No.

Head damage should be limited to when heat levels are well above the auto shutdown threshold.

However there should be consequences for high heat levels other than damage. Effects on top speed, acceleration/deceleration, weapon convergence, hud flickers, prolonging target data, and lock on times.

[SweetWarmIce]

Shut down is punishment enough for overheating. If you override or power back up while your heat is past 100%, that's when you should take damage.

[Sephlock]

SweetWarmIce, on 13 May 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

Shut down is punishment enough for overheating. If you override or power back up while your heat is past 100%, that's when you should take damage.

I'd like a way to tell what your heat level is when you're shut down, in that case...

[Panimu]

Sephlock, on 13 May 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

I'd like a way to tell what your heat level is when you're shut down, in that case...

Haha. No.

[Gaan Cathal]

Hellcat420, on 13 May 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

your cars engine is not a fusion reactor.

A fusion reaction cannot be 'rebooted' instantly if interrupted, since you saw fit to introduce the realism gremlin. Don't introduce the realism gremlin, incidentally. No-one likes him.

Hellcat420, on 13 May 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

you shouldnt even be able to put 6 ppc's on one of these mechs to begin with. that is the problem.

Based on what? Sure as hell not TT or previous MW games, since both allow those builds. The problem with them is that they are so effective and their drawbacks so heavily mitigated that the former massively exceeds the latter. (i.e. they're too good)

SweetWarmIce, on 13 May 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

Shut down is punishment enough for overheating. If you override or power back up while your heat is past 100%, that's when you should take damage.

It's manifestly not, since overheat shut downs are not acting as any sort of a deterrent or practical drawback to the builds the heat system is designed to limit.

[Liberator]

Badconduct, on 10 May 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

It should only damage if you override.

If it shuts off and you hit 250% of your heat, you just have to wait that much longer. You end up taking more damage shut down anyway. No need for more damage.

The point is that you can sit far back and snipe with 5 ppc, shutdown, at no penalty, because the blob is around you to take fire, and then restart and pop a new ct or component off a poor sod. Not to mention jetters that can shutdown midair and land safely.

The current heat mechanic does not punish high heat builds, but rewards you for sitting on the knife's edge all the time, and the knife is dull, broad and gently tingling unless you power down in the middle of a brawl, but no player complain about brawling in the current meta, or at all really.

[Hellcat420]

Gaan Cathal, on 14 May 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

[size=4]

A fusion reaction cannot be 'rebooted' instantly if interrupted, since you saw fit to introduce the realism gremlin. Don't introduce the realism gremlin, incidentally. No-one likes him.



Based on what? Sure as hell not TT or previous MW games, since both allow those builds. The problem with them is that they are so effective and their drawbacks so heavily mitigated that the former massively exceeds the latter. (i.e. they're too good)



It's manifestly not, since overheat shut downs are not acting as any sort of a deterrent or practical drawback to the builds the heat system is designed to limit.

no you couldnt boat 6 ppc in tt. if you tried that you would blow up your mech. if you fired 3 ppc at once(or 2 erppc) you would be shutdown for a couple rounds in tt, or at least until you could get back down to roughly 45% heat. firing ppc in rapid sucession would also overheat you very quickly and cause you to max out heat and shutdown till over half your heat dissapated. sure i guess you could in theory boat ppc, but you would not be able to use even half of them without killing yourself or causing a shutdown for an extended period of time(which is basically the same as killing yourself), so it would be pointless to begin with. and that does not even factor in the heat penalties to movement, aiming(slower arm/torso movement), ammo explosions, pilot conciousness checks, etc.

Edited by Hellcat420, 14 May 2013 - 09:20 AM.

[Gaan Cathal]

Hellcat420, on 14 May 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

no you couldnt boat 6 ppc in tt. if you tried that you would blow up your mech. if you fired 3 ppc at once(or 2 erppc) you would be shutdown for a couple rounds in tt, or at least until you could get back down to roughly 45% heat. firing ppc in rapid sucession would also overheat you very quickly and cause you to max out heat and shutdown till over half your heat dissapated. sure i guess you could in theory boat ppc, but you would not be able to use even half of them without killing yourself or causing a shutdown for an extended period of time(which is basically the same as killing yourself), so it would be pointless to begin with. and that does not even factor in the heat penalties to movement, aiming(slower arm/torso movement), ammo explosions, pilot conciousness checks, etc.

Still doable. Dumb, but doable.

[Hellcat420]

Gaan Cathal, on 14 May 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

Still doable. Dumb, but doable.

doable in theory, but not actually usable without killing yourself is more like it. part of the problem is that heatsinks are not supposed to increase the total amount of heat you can build up, they increase heat dissapation. heatsinks in battletech are not actually heatsinks, they are heatpumps.

Edited by Hellcat420, 14 May 2013 - 09:46 AM.

[Timuroslav]

I can't help but think of the American Speed limit Argument
IE: Is it a Speed Limit OR a Speed Average?

People don't seem to get that Limit implies the max, of about anything without punishment.
Heat should stack Beyond 100% BUT your mech will try to shut down at 100%
Damage should be proportional to the % of Heat Beyond 100%
A stalker Alpha Striking with 140% should be taking more damage to their Mech than a Mech whom has 101% heat
This Alpha-shut-down-Alpha-Again-Crap (rinse repeat) is what is breaking the game at the moment, there is no punishment for Running energy weapons when your enemy is dead and nothing in your mech Explodes
Heat should be a threshold not an Average, otherwise Shut down will not make sense.

PS: 200% Heat should result in a Massive Engine Explosion or Melt down, I'm talking engine melting through the floor of your mech or a Mechwarrior 4 merc explosion, no Matter what weapons you are carrying.

Edited by Timuroslav, 15 May 2013 - 01:35 PM.

[NotEnoughDakkaDakka]

Hellcat420, on 14 May 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

no you couldnt boat 6 ppc in tt. if you tried that you would blow up your mech. if you fired 3 ppc at once(or 2 erppc) you would be shutdown for a couple rounds in tt, or at least until you could get back down to roughly 45% heat. firing ppc in rapid sucession would also overheat you very quickly and cause you to max out heat and shutdown till over half your heat dissapated. sure i guess you could in theory boat ppc, but you would not be able to use even half of them without killing yourself or causing a shutdown for an extended period of time(which is basically the same as killing yourself), so it would be pointless to begin with. and that does not even factor in the heat penalties to movement, aiming(slower arm/torso movement), ammo explosions, pilot conciousness checks, etc.

Err... in TT, the way the heatsinks work is that if your heat buildup exceeds the amount it can pump, it builds that heat (say, 10 DHS versus firing two ERPPCS, you build 10 heat since the first 20 is dissapated.).

See the Hellstar in 3079; Has THIRTY double heat sinks and four clan ERPPCs.

[Hellcat420]

NotEnoughDakkaDakka, on 14 May 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

Err... in TT, the way the heatsinks work is that if your heat buildup exceeds the amount it can pump, it builds that heat (say, 10 DHS versus firing two ERPPCS, you build 10 heat since the first 20 is dissapated.).

See the Hellstar in 3079; Has THIRTY double heat sinks and four clan ERPPCs.

that is 29 years into the future. that stuff does not exist yet in this game.

here is a quote from hellstar information, "The real key to the design's reputation was its unprecedented thirty Double Heat Sinks". so sure, 29 years from now(in the timeline) its possible, but not at this point in time.

Edited by Hellcat420, 14 May 2013 - 10:05 AM.

[Garth Erlam]

This has been suggested a LOT, so it's been forwarded guys

[Yiazmat]

Garth Erlam, on 14 May 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

This has been suggested a LOT, so it's been forwarded guys

Hell yeah.

[OneEyed Jack]

Liberator, on 14 May 2013 - 05:35 AM, said:

The point is that you can sit far back and snipe with 5 ppc, shutdown, at no penalty, because the blob is around you to take fire, and then restart and pop a new ct or component off a poor sod. Not to mention jetters that can shutdown midair and land safely.

The current heat mechanic does not punish high heat builds, but rewards you for sitting on the knife's edge all the time, and the knife is dull, broad and gently tingling unless you power down in the middle of a brawl, but no player complain about brawling in the current meta, or at all really.

No penalty? Since you had to move into LOS to take the shot in the first place, that's where you're shut down. Shutting down in LOS is like a lodestone for enemy fire, and even a good team isn't going to run in front of you to take the fire on their own mechs just to keep your low DPS arse able to take occasional shots.

The mere suggestion that the "blob" will take incoming fire for you, making it safe to shut down on a regular basis is ludicrous.

Hellcat420, on 14 May 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

doable in theory, but not actually usable without killing yourself is more like it. part of the problem is that heatsinks are not supposed to increase the total amount of heat you can build up, they increase heat dissapation. heatsinks in battletech are not actually heatsinks, they are heatpumps.

That's only because the system uses 10-second rounds. They are supposed to work over time, but that can't be represented correctly in a turn-based game. The MWO model is actually a very good translation of the way they work in TT, done in real-time instead of turns.

[DaZur]

Garth Erlam, on 14 May 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

This has been suggested a LOT, so it's been forwarded guys

^^ This post = Proof that level-headed discussion with logical and practical suggestions and solutions are viewed favorably by PGI and it gets the worm...

Not that I'm calling Canadians or Garth a worm... DON"T REVOKE MY ACCOUNT!!!!!

[Hellcat420]

OneEyed Jack, on 14 May 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

That's only because the system uses 10-second rounds. They are supposed to work over time, but that can't be represented correctly in a turn-based game. The MWO model is actually a very good translation of the way they work in TT, done in real-time instead of turns.

since they left out all of the heat penalties from the tabletop id have to say its not a good translation from tt.