339 replies to this topic

[DaZur]

RE: Perceived deficit in the Cat's LRM and the Dragon...

Thanks for the personal insight and overview!

That said, and no offense intended but I take the commentary regarding your impression of some things with a grain of salt... The dragon really is a paper dragon, it's dafult loadout is pretty paltry and it vise is it's speed-to-class ratio. Also, I'm actually happy to hear that missiles are not instant death from above, allowing a rush tactics to actually counter what otherwise would be a frustrating death-at-distance scenario as in past MW iterations...

Good stuff. Thanks!

[Rayah]

Morang, on 06 June 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

Aye, it seems reasonable. But I was intrigued by the statement that they only shoot wrong when located in arms (i.e. Huncback torso AC/20 is not the case?)



In short words, the convergence. Is there any indicator telling you that your hands have adjusted to the needed distance?

The inner circle on the recital shows where you arms are aiming, when you're moving your torso your arms move independently, so if you want everything to shoot the same target you have to let your arms center first.

Is that what you're asking?

[RaptorSix]

AceTimberwolf, thanks for for reporting all of this!

Could you describe more in depth about the mech lab? Do you have to refit ammo and repair in between matches?

How long did a typical match go?

[Faenwulf]

Look at the Hunchback Video, near the End he fires an shot on another Hunchbacks AC/20 but misses. Why? Because he didn't calculate that the Weapon is in his side torso.

That besides, a big giant kudos to the OP for providing this information. Good to hear that they are keeping what they promised (especially about the role warfare). Too bad about the Dragon though, was thinking about getting it as my second or third 'Mech. Hopefully they will tweak it a bit until release.

That said, any more Info you can give out about scouts? Especially the Jenner and the Raven (if implemented yet). But the Jenner would be most interesting for me.

[BushFire]

Morang, on 06 June 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

Aye, it seems reasonable. But I was intrigued by the statement that they only shoot wrong when located in arms (i.e. Huncback torso AC/20 is not the case?)



In short words, the convergence. Is there any indicator telling you that your hands have adjusted to the needed distance?

could it be due to high recoil?

[Easily]

First of all, big thanks to you AceTimberwolf!
Information has been a bit scarce I found lately, but your coverage is enough to get me all excited.

By the way, did you happen to see any Cicada in action?

[Phelan Kerensky]

Sounds really awesome, I just wish I could have played it already, lol. I can not wait to get into the cockpit...

[AceTimberwolf]

Morang, on 06 June 2012 - 07:21 AM, said:

Thanks for posting!

Have you seen the MechLab? Have you tried any LosTech stuff or seen it used by other players - Pulse lasers, Gauss etc (I believe there was a Gauss Rifle readily available in the MechLab Devs Breakdown video, but it was never shown in combat)?

About those AutoCannons: why don't they shoot where you point them? Is it a bug, a projectile travel time or what?

Are there any playable mechs or maps we haven't seen yet in media?

Yea Gauss Rifle was in the Mech Lab but didn't use it. I was trying to fool around with setup but much was disabled since i couldn't save the Builds which I didn't kno and returned to default. After that i figured out you can change the setup and launch instead of saving and it would work. Mechs were just the ones they have shown. Maps were the one they showed and a Snow Map which was pretty cool. Low visibility

Adridos, on 06 June 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

Take a pistol in your hand and spread your arms. Then look at something (gun pointing forward) and position yourself in a perfect line with it. If you pull teh trigger, you won't hit. Do you understand now?

Yea you got to compensate for the fact that its not exactly center. if I had adjusted a bit I would have hit the guys torso dead on. I just dind't kno

Morang, on 06 June 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

Aye, it seems reasonable. But I was intrigued by the statement that they only shoot wrong when located in arms (i.e. Huncback torso AC/20 is not the case?)



In short words, the convergence. Is there any indicator telling you that your hands have adjusted to the needed distance?

Yea there is a smaller circle once you are on a target that lets you move your arms around while your torso stuff is the main cross hair. and yea you just gotta know where your weapons are coming from. To be honest I thought that was cool.

Bryan Kerensky, on 06 June 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

This sounds great.

I know there's been quite a number of videos about it but I'm going to ask anyways. How are the jump jets compared to the other MW games? Is there more control and such? I know this sounds really trivial but with terrain playing a big part in MW games, it would be interesting to know if there have been any changes to this mech aspect. Also, if you know, are mechs going to have the coolant feature?

Thanks

Coolant wasn't up yet. Overheated a bit. JJs felt good but I'm just not a JJ kind of guy. Not really good with them honestly. But was able to position well by using them. Also DFA is hilarious as it zooms out when you fall down and I kept just jumping on one guy. Probably pissed him off.

[AceTimberwolf]

RaptorSix, on 06 June 2012 - 07:35 AM, said:

AceTimberwolf, thanks for for reporting all of this!

Could you describe more in depth about the mech lab? Do you have to refit ammo and repair in between matches?

How long did a typical match go?

There wasn't much besides the Videos. As you click around you can see what you can add to that specific part. or Take away such as armour. They didn't have ammo and repairs up. It was just back to Launch screen. Matches were about 15 Minutes

Faenwulf, on 06 June 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

Look at the Hunchback Video, near the End he fires an shot on another Hunchbacks AC/20 but misses. Why? Because he didn't calculate that the Weapon is in his side torso.

That besides, a big giant kudos to the OP for providing this information. Good to hear that they are keeping what they promised (especially about the role warfare). Too bad about the Dragon though, was thinking about getting it as my second or third 'Mech. Hopefully they will tweak it a bit until release.

That said, any more Info you can give out about scouts? Especially the Jenner and the Raven (if implemented yet). But the Jenner would be most interesting for me.

No ravens, And Jenners were... I hate Jenners... lol. Fast nimble got in and out quickly. Hard to Hit. They look like fun.

Easily, on 06 June 2012 - 07:39 AM, said:

First of all, big thanks to you AceTimberwolf!
Information has been a bit scarce I found lately, but your coverage is enough to get me all excited.

By the way, did you happen to see any Cicada in action?

No Cicadas

[Lightfoot]

There is always a trick to making LRMs/ Missiles work. Sometimes you have to study their behavior for awhile because if they are given excentricities those can be molded to help you, or like in MW4, you just fired them correctly and they went from splash damage to single target damage.

The other truth is if Missiles are mediocre period, no one will use them so why bother including them? Nope Missiles have to be as good as an AC20 when used correctly. I don't mean AC20 damage from 640 meters, I mean when I want a good long range tactic weapon I should take the LRMs, not the AC20 or medium lasers and hope I can run in fast enough. I am sure LRMs will be very effective when MWO goes live. Still thinking the LRM Cat is my founder's Mech choice.

[Urulf]

Great cover-up so far, Ace Timberwolf ^^

Thanks for all the info

[AceTimberwolf]

DaZur, on 06 June 2012 - 07:33 AM, said:

RE: Perceived deficit in the Cat's LRM and the Dragon...

Thanks for the personal insight and overview!

That said, and no offense intended but I take the commentary regarding your impression of some things with a grain of salt... The dragon really is a paper dragon, it's dafult loadout is pretty paltry and it vise is it's speed-to-class ratio. Also, I'm actually happy to hear that missiles are not instant death from above, allowing a rush tactics to actually counter what otherwise would be a frustrating death-at-distance scenario as in past MW iterations...

Good stuff. Thanks!

You are totally right. I only played for a couple of hours and by no means am I a expert on MWO. And I'm not Amazing at MW, just an average Player who has played all the other MW games. and yea I'm glad the LRMs aren't insta kill.

[RainbowToh]

Morang, on 06 June 2012 - 07:21 AM, said:

Thanks for posting!

Have you seen the MechLab? Have you tried any LosTech stuff or seen it used by other players - Pulse lasers, Gauss etc (I believe there was a Gauss Rifle readily available in the MechLab Devs Breakdown video, but it was never shown in combat)?

About those AutoCannons: why don't they shoot where you point them? Is it a bug, a projectile travel time or what?

Are there any playable mechs or maps we haven't seen yet in media?

Dont think it is a bug, it would be a terrible obvious bug. I think he meant to describe that accuracy would be affected by where you put the weapon on your mech. That not all the weapons will be tied in to your crosshair with absolute accuracy.

To use an analogy would be like firing a gun from your hip and firing from your shoulder, the perspective becomes different.

This is way cool, because it forces you to understand the idiocracies of each mech, so that you really need to master the mech till it becomes an extension of yourself, well your gaming self at least.

Lightfoot, on 06 June 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

There is always a trick to making LRMs/ Missiles work. Sometimes you have to study their behavior for awhile because if they are given excentricities those can be molded to help you, or like in MW4, you just fired them correctly and they went from splash damage to single target damage.

The other truth is if Missiles are mediocre period, no one will use them so why bother including them? Nope Missiles have to be as good as an AC20 when used correctly. I don't mean AC20 damage from 640 meters, I mean when I want a good long range tactic weapon I should take the LRMs, not the AC20 or medium lasers and hope I can run in fast enough. I am sure LRMs will be very effective when MWO goes live. Still thinking the LRM Cat is my founder's Mech choice.

Perhaps there will be pilot skillsets that increase the effectiveness of each class of weapons? Eg, like reduce the splash area of the LRMs or something? Like to help you invest in the playing style that you like, ala energy, ballistic or missiles.

[AceTimberwolf]

RainbowToh, on 06 June 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

Dont think it is a bug, it would be a terrible obvious bug. I think he meant to describe that accuracy would be affected by where you put the weapon on your mech. That not all the weapons will be tied in to your crosshair with absolute accuracy.

To use an analogy would be like firing a gun from your hip and firing from your shoulder, the perspective becomes different.

This is way cool, because it forces you to understand the idiocracies of each mech, so that you really need to master the mech till it becomes an extension of yourself, well your gaming self at least.

Exactly, The Scenario was a Jenner to the lower left of me and my AC5 on my Right Arm. as I turned and Shot my Med Laser in my arm hit almost dead on where I pointed and my AC5 including travel time was wide to the right. If i had compensated to the left a smidge to the left i would have hit with my AC5 and my Med laser would probably still have hit. If I had lead a bit more I would have been fine. Just in my head it was "point and it will be done" which dind't happen. Still killed the Jenner tho. All was good.

[Urulf]

AceTimberwolf, on 06 June 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

You are totally right. I only played for a couple of hours and by no means am I a expert on MWO. And I'm not Amazing at MW, just an average Player who has played all the other MW games. and yea I'm glad the LRMs aren't insta kill.

Tbh, i wasn't expecting insta kill shots from LRMs, not to deal 2-4 mechs myself alone with a support mech (WoT similarities aside), but giving a 10-15% total dmg per 30-missiles-shot (that's 2x15LRM after all) to a mech to soften it for the other members of the team would be in the spot, i guess. If it ends doing a 1-5% dmg for each shot could be disappointing to be a "support" mech, when u can't get to brawling with the mech, neither sniping from afar with 4 med lasers.

In sum:
LRMs taking huge chunks of a mech isnt great (feel overpowered but ppl will just play hidding at the best corners they can find) but making LRMs useless doing crap dmg due to RNG and just low dmg coefficient will make them useless and noone will use them (pointless to implement them then). Take note im not taking in account the ECM and such electronic anti missiles warfare, that will make them even more useless.

[Reinholt]

I can hardly wait to jump on people's heads.

[Radman]

Lightfoot, on 06 June 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

There is always a trick to making LRMs/ Missiles work. Sometimes you have to study their behavior for awhile because if they are given excentricities those can be molded to help you, or like in MW4, you just fired them correctly and they went from splash damage to single target damage.

The other truth is if Missiles are mediocre period, no one will use them so why bother including them? Nope Missiles have to be as good as an AC20 when used correctly. I don't mean AC20 damage from 640 meters, I mean when I want a good long range tactic weapon I should take the LRMs, not the AC20 or medium lasers and hope I can run in fast enough. I am sure LRMs will be very effective when MWO goes live. Still thinking the LRM Cat is my founder's Mech choice.

Just because missiles aren't uber powerful doesn't mean they're mediocre. Everything that Ace has written so far to me sounds like balance is of great concern to the designers. Everything will have its place and will be effective if properly used. What this means is 12 LRM boat catapults could get absolutely wasted by a good mix of any other 12 mechs. This is the way it should be. Going back to the beginning of BT LRM carriers were support mechs. Not mech killers. I for one will be VERY happy if there's no "trick" to making the LRM's a sure hit.

If any single weapon becomes overpowering then we'll see nothing but that weapon being carried. That would kill the game and I think the dev's know this.

[Sassori]

The other thing you have to remember is that LRM's do 1 damage per missile default, and they don't all hit most of the time. They have their own guidance issues which can cause many to miss. I think the average is 12 missiles hit out of 20.

So that's 12 points of damage per LRM 20, which is substantial normally but with doubled armor and internal structure that's not as damaging, especially when it's spread over the whole chassis as missiles do.

There might be tricks to making them work better, I dunno, but the LRM 20 should never be counted as 20 damage every hit.

[DaZur]

Lightfoot, on 06 June 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

There is always a trick to making LRMs/ Missiles work. Sometimes you have to study their behavior for awhile because if they are given excentricities those can be molded to help you, or like in MW4, you just fired them correctly and they went from splash damage to single target damage.

The other truth is if Missiles are mediocre period, no one will use them so why bother including them? Nope Missiles have to be as good as an AC20 when used correctly. I don't mean AC20 damage from 640 meters, I mean when I want a good long range tactic weapon I should take the LRMs, not the AC20 or medium lasers and hope I can run in fast enough. I am sure LRMs will be very effective when MWO goes live. Still thinking the LRM Cat is my founder's Mech choice.

In fairness, I think too many people are used to past MW iterations where tracking missiles focus on the center torso and as such, "appear" to be much more powerful due to damage convergence than then really were...

Long and short... we'll just have to see.

[Aegis Kleais]

PirateNixon, on 06 June 2012 - 06:52 AM, said:

Welp... guess I'm not getting a Catapult for my founder's mech then...

I'm not going to let a person who spent an hour on a Mech sway my opinion of the Mech's capabilities. In the event a Mech is not performing as PGI envisioned, it can always be patched and adjusted down the line.