40 replies to this topic

[Lefty Lucy]

It generates massive heat with only 10 SHS. It has less armor than the current trial *light* mech.

Giving this pile of crud to a brand new player is one of the *worst* ways to advertise your game.

[NRP]

I don't know about the trial configuration, but the S is arguably the best Jager variant. All the trial mechs run too hot, lack firepower, and have really low armor. I don't really know why PGI does this. Perhaps they just don't have the resources to flesh this stuff out? Anyway, the community designed Trial Mech initiative seems like a good solution for the time being. That Dragon build was actually pretty solid. It also gives the community a little bit of ownership of the product because they had a hand at designing it. Much more productive than all the typical whining.

[Lefty Lucy]

NRP, on 11 May 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

I don't know about the trial configuration, but the S is arguably the best Jager variant. All the trial mechs run too hot, lack firepower, and have really low armor. I don't really know why PGI does this. Perhaps they just don't have the resources to flesh this stuff out? Anyway, the community designed Trial Mech initiative seems like a good solution for the time being. That Dragon build was actually pretty solid. It also gives the community a little bit of ownership of the product because they had a hand at designing it. Much more productive than all the typical whining.

The trial mechs are, except for the brand new "champion" mechs (such as the dragon you mention), all stock variants. The "run too hot" is simply a system of MWO's heat system not playing well with canon mech builds.

The JM6-S is, however, simply a particularly egregious example of this effect. Let's compare the JM6-S to another current trial mech, the HBK-4G. HBK-4G is a great trial mech. Not too heat-intensive, a big, fun AC20, and a couple of lasers keep it simple to use, and nearly max armor for its weight, 320 points in a pretty smart layout. While slow mediums are not exactly wonderful in a "metagame" context, it's a mech that the new player can at least feel like he has a chance in.

Compared to this, the JM6-S has weapons that will over-heat the mech to shutdown in seconds, and has only 192 points of armor out of over 400 available. Whenever I see a player in a trial JM6-S, my first thought is that it's going to be ridiculously easy to kill. Dying really early with no appreciable impact on the game is not an enjoyable experience, but when the new player steps into this "bad boy", that is nearly guaranteed the experience he or she will be seeing. Let's not forget the deep, explosive ammo bins.

[Henry Avery]

The JM6-S is for sure a trap, and also great fun. It probably sucks compared to one that has been refitted in the mechlab, and it only has 1 ton of ammo for each AC (?), but damn it is fun while it lasts. It may be slow and has paper for armor, but don't say it is a bad mech, it is great fun, but you have to play it carefully. I think I've had about 20 drops so far, and I get messed up in every second, mainly because I believe I can take a few hits as I am a heavy. The mech shines on the bigger maps, and it makes dhakka, screw the min/maxing the jäger is fun as it is and reaps quite some damage before it succumbs to a light in the back.

Edited by Henry Avery, 11 May 2013 - 09:09 AM.

[Deathlike]

Set up like a mo...

Trial mechs are a trap, and we should really be promoting the Jennahhhhhh.

[Carrion Hound]

The Jaeger S variant is based off the Canon Tabletop, as are all the stock variants. It's using fairly outdated tech, so of course it's not going to be as awsome as a fully upgraded version. Do you really think that every single merc or regular in the mecwarrior universe uses sweet custom variants?

So naive. However yes, it is awful IMO.

Let it be said that the heads who developed the initial mech were working with what they had at the "Time" and all that stuff.

[Lefty Lucy]

Carrion Hound, on 11 May 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

The Jaeger S variant is based off the Canon Tabletop, as are all the stock variants. It's using fairly outdated tech, so of course it's not going to be as awsome as a fully upgraded version. Do you really think that every single merc or regular in the mecwarrior universe uses sweet custom variants?

So naive. However yes, it is awful IMO.

Let it be said that the heads who developed the initial mech were working with what they had at the "Time" and all that stuff.

I understand that there are in-universe reasons for the fact that some mechs are crap. I have played TT for a long time, and if it weren't for RAT or BV, nobody would ever use the JM6-S ever barring strange personality quirks.

However, we're playing a game, and retaining new players is important for any online game.

[Corbon Zackery]

I just tried it there nothing wrong with it you can even put the AC2 and AC5 on one key leave the 2 m. lasers on a separate group.

[Vassago Rain]

That jag is also supposed to be completely heat neutral if it stands still...

[Carrion Hound]

Lefty Lucy, on 11 May 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

I understand that there are in-universe reasons for the fact that some mechs are crap. I have played TT for a long time, and if it weren't for RAT or BV, nobody would ever use the JM6-S ever barring strange personality quirks.

However, we're playing a game, and retaining new players is important for any online game.

You are not getting a disagreement here from me. It's likely they pull mechs out of a frickin hat when they select the trial ones.

[SmoothCriminal]

Had a look at the stats. Laughable. No doubt the chassis itself is the best, the trial version is a jooooke.

[General Taskeen]

Vassago Rain, on 11 May 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

That jag is also supposed to be completely heat neutral if it stands still...

Lol, so much for PGI balancing SHS and DHS.

[MustrumRidcully]

Carrion Hound, on 11 May 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

The Jaeger S variant is based off the Canon Tabletop, as are all the stock variants. It's using fairly outdated tech, so of course it's not going to be as awsome as a fully upgraded version. Do you really think that every single merc or regular in the mecwarrior universe uses sweet custom variants?

So naive. However yes, it is awful IMO.

Let it be said that the heads who developed the initial mech were working with what they had at the "Time" and all that stuff.

But it's worse as in the table top. In the table top, it's not a good mech, but at least it isn't likely to have heat or ammo problems. In MW:O, it has everything. too little armour, too little armor, not enough heat sinks.

I am sure you can make worse mechs if you tried, but creating a Battletech based game that bases all starting mechs on stock configurations from Battletech and making the game system itself incompatible with it, that's a feat for itself. Giving these mechs to new players...

This isn't like getting a 1st level character in an MMO with starter gear. That guy would run through a tutorial and fight some easy quests to upgrade his gear and abilities, not be thrown to the wolves in PvP.

[General Taskeen]

MustrumRidcully, on 11 May 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

Giving these mechs to new players...

Unfortunately they simply are going to cover up stock builds by making "community" versions... instead of, I don't know, making a stock be useful in some context, game mode, or balancing of heat/weapons, etc.

[MustrumRidcully]

General Taskeen, on 11 May 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

Unfortunately they simply are going to cover up stock builds by making "community" versions... instead of, I don't know, making a stock be useful in some context, game mode, or balancing of heat/weapons, etc.

Double dissipation, half heat capacity. That would probably help most stock mechs a lot. They finally could actually sustain their firepower for a while. While custom mechs would need to be build for less alpha and designed more around chain-firing.

[Corbon Zackery]

Maybe they should just make 1 trial mech for everyone, and give you a Urban mech as a starter.

As I said before there's nothing wrong with the trial mechs.

[WolvesX]

Its stait out TERRIBLE!

[Lefty Lucy]

Corbon Zackery, on 11 May 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

Maybe they should just make 1 trial mech for everyone, and give you a Urban mech as a starter.

As I said before there's nothing wrong with the trial mechs.

Just because you say there's "nothing wrong" wit trial mechs doesn't make that true.

And your answer would be to give every new player one of the worst mechs of all time to play?

[aniviron]

Personally, I've been having a blast in the JM6-S. Makes me kinda want to buy one.

That said, I have over a thousand drops and know that I need to make every shot with the limited ammo count, and the pathetic armor means I absolutely must make good advantage of the range the small-bore acs provide. If someone with under one hundred drops landed in this thing, s/he is going to have one heck of a rough go of it.

[Lefty Lucy]

aniviron, on 12 May 2013 - 12:14 AM, said:

Personally, I've been having a blast in the JM6-S. Makes me kinda want to buy one.

That said, I have over a thousand drops and know that I need to make every shot with the limited ammo count, and the pathetic armor means I absolutely must make good advantage of the range the small-bore acs provide. If someone with under one hundred drops landed in this thing, s/he is going to have one heck of a rough go of it.

That's the thing though, as soon as you buy it you get to modify it. Drop the AC5s for 2 more AC2s, give it endo steel and DHS, use the 3.5 tons of ES purely for armor, and all of a sudden you're looking at a decent mech.