102 replies to this topic

[redlance]

The word on the street is that streaks are working as intended, i have done a little testing on my own and concluded that in my own personal and humble opinion that its just not the case. please watch the video and please share your own experience with the streak short range missile system in the game. i need your help in bringing this to PGI's attention, someday soon there will be SSRM 6's.



thank you for taking the time mechwarriors, now go answer your skype messages. lol. -redlance.

[MustrumRidcully]

Of course, they can just say that this is a problem with the training grounds. But they've got a QA, I am sure they could test the claims in a live environment, too.

The CT focus is something that was reported about LRMs and is part of the reason they got their damage nerf and the reduction - but not outright removal - of splash damage. It is unsurprising to me that Streaks have the same problem. I remember that they once intentionally added the ability to Streaks to hit different spots, seems that code got removed, more or less by accident probably. It could also be related to Artemis -that changes the flight patterns of SRMs and LRMs, it might also have a side effect of changing the flight pattern of Streaks.

The "weird angle" problem - I think in these cases, the player should either lose lock, or the Streaks shouldn't fire.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 11 May 2013 - 02:01 AM.

[Tesfurdo]

Looks like your right!

[armyof1]

I saw this in fan videos, El Bandito made a streakcat video and it pretty much shows how bugged the streaks are. The Mario music just makes it more fun to watch Sure the other hitboxes are hit all the time, but that's just from splash, the direct hit damage is what's burning out the CT and leaving all else just scratched.

Edited by armyof1, 11 May 2013 - 02:35 AM.

[redlance]

armyof1, on 11 May 2013 - 02:28 AM, said:

I saw this in fan videos, El Bandito made a streakcat video and it pretty much shows how bugged the streaks are. The Mario music just makes it more fun to watch

thanks for contributing! great video

[Kitane]

There is something fishy going on with offline missile damage, they do far, far more damage than online missiles to a similar standing targets. I haven't really tested streaks, but LRMs are much more effective than online, SRMs as well. It feels like offline missiles are using pre-nerf missile values and they never bothered to update it.

Look at the Commando at the beginning, 12 Streaks were doing 30 damage before the nerf and 18 damage now. The pre-nerf value and a bit of extra splash damage would be just enough to kill a Commando's CT.


Edit: I can kill a scout mech with one salvo of tagged 40 LRMs offline, medium and heavy often in two. Atlas in three. I needed 200 missiles online to kill a standing Jenner...

Edited by Kitane, 11 May 2013 - 02:35 AM.

[redlance]

Kitane, on 11 May 2013 - 02:33 AM, said:

There is something fishy going on with offline missile damage, they do far, far more damage than online missiles to a similar standing targets. I haven't really tested streaks, but LRMs are much more effective than online, SRMs as well. It feels like offline missiles are using pre-nerf missile values and they never bothered to update it.

Look at the Commando at the beginning, 12 Streaks were doing 30 damage before the nerf and 18 damage now. The pre-nerf value and a bit of extra splash damage would be just enough to kill a Commando's CT.


Edit: I can kill a scout mech with one salvo of tagged 40 LRMs offline, medium and heavy often in two. Atlas in three. I needed 200 missiles online to kill a standing Jenner...

the mech's standing around in training mode carry stock load outs and much less armor than real players carry in live game play online. lights also have the easiest time dodging LRMs because they move very fast.

[Kitane]

redlance, on 11 May 2013 - 02:37 AM, said:

the mech's standing around in training mode carry stock load outs and much less armor than real players carry in live game play online. lights also have the easiest time dodging LRMs because they move very fast.

I used 200 tagged Artemis buffed missiles to kill an immobile Jenner (he was busy trying to kill a disconnected assault and ignored my missiles)

In your Commando example, your first salvo shaved a bit of his armor, your second salvo damaged his internals and the third salvo cored him. 2 salvos (12 damage) touched the internals with a bit of armor remaining. Commando CT has 22 points of internal hp.

That just doesn't add up.

You can see a similar difference between offline and online mode with all missile types.

[redlance]

Kitane, on 11 May 2013 - 02:59 AM, said:

I used 200 tagged Artemis buffed missiles to kill an immobile Jenner (he was busy trying to kill a disconnected assault and ignored my missiles)

In your Commando example, your first salvo shaved a bit of his armor, your second salvo damaged his internals and the third salvo cored him. 2 salvos (12 damage) touched the internals with a bit of armor remaining. Commando CT has 22 points of internal hp.

That just doesn't add up.

You can see a similar difference between offline and online mode with all missile types.

regardless, it is the fact that streaks always damage the CT and leave the rest of the mech intact that is at the core of this weapon balancing problem.

[Child3k]

Isn't it just pure logic that the CT gets the most damage? I mean - streaks always hit if they are not blocked by physical objects like landscape, buildings, etc. - but they kinda hit the target mech in almost every place (mainly the torsos). So since the CT is in the center of the mech, it just gets the splash damage from all the adjacent components that get hit - being Cockpit, LT and RT ...

... in my opinion the only solution to this is: Get rid of splash damage altogether - but, do we really want that?

[armyof1]

Child3k, on 11 May 2013 - 03:13 AM, said:

Isn't it just pure logic that the CT gets the most damage? I mean - streaks always hit if they are not blocked by physical objects like landscape, buildings, etc. - but they kinda hit the target mech in almost every place (mainly the torsos). So since the CT is in the center of the mech, it just gets the splash damage from all the adjacent components that get hit - being Cockpit, LT and RT ...

... in my opinion the only solution to this is: Get rid of splash damage altogether - but, do we really want that?

Most damage on CT I can agree with would generally make sense, but getting cored through CT where you have the most armor, while all your arms and legs and a lot of times side torsos just show yellow damage in armor? That I most certainly don't agree with.

[redlance]

Child3k, on 11 May 2013 - 03:13 AM, said:

Isn't it just pure logic that the CT gets the most damage? I mean - streaks always hit if they are not blocked by physical objects like landscape, buildings, etc. - but they kinda hit the target mech in almost every place (mainly the torsos). So since the CT is in the center of the mech, it just gets the splash damage from all the adjacent components that get hit - being Cockpit, LT and RT ...

... in my opinion the only solution to this is: Get rid of splash damage altogether - but, do we really want that?

armyof1, on 11 May 2013 - 03:19 AM, said:

Most damage on CT I can agree with would generally make sense, but getting cored through CT where you have the most armor, while all your arms and legs and a lot of times side torsos just show yellow damage in armor? That I most certainly don't agree with.

getting rid of splash damage may actually be a great solution, in the video i describe how a low risk weapon should not offer high rewards. splash damage should be reserved for the SRM's since they are a skill shot based weapon.

Edited by redlance, 11 May 2013 - 03:23 AM.

[Chavette]

If you skip through the video after the start, take a look at 3:35 too, its the other great point. Streaks travel through your own mech, can fire backwards, all that crazy jazz.

[redlance]

Neverfar, on 11 May 2013 - 03:31 AM, said:

I use Streaks on a few of my Mechs. I am fond of them for anti-Light purposes.

I'm willing to see the center-torso bias of them removed because I'm not one of those "only things that matter are things that benefit me" types. Still, the outright spergy rage coming from the CoD/Counterstrike crowd that likes to use the word Skill™ a lot seems to demand that anything with a guidance system be nerfed into oblivion (see LRMs).

I hope it's not taken too far, especially when the guys that hate Streaks so much are often bloat-boating PPCs and saying "everything is fine here, get over it, L2P".

if you will notice, my standpoint on "nerfing" is that we don't ever want to have anything that is fun to use nerfed into the dirt. we need t change how they behave so that they are fun AND balanced.

[King Arthur IV]

bump

[redlance]

on reddit ...

Quote

I didn't watch your entire video (because it's 15 minutes long), but your "evidence" is you shooting at stationary targets from the front, which is not representative of actual gameplay. Not only does damage location depend on the speed of the target, but also it's orientation relative to you. Therefore, damage in real gameplay is greatly dependent on pilot skill. As such, and from my experience using streaks, I have to say I disagree with you and say streaks work fine.

while this is true, it is important to remember that regardless of a lack of actual combat footage it is the damage consistently hitting the CT that is the problem that i am attempting to address.

[Chavette]

People are so used to it being broken(maybe even devs) that they forgot how srms work, and how streaks should. They should have comparable spread to normal srms with tracking, not this 100%-hitrate heavenly-super-tracking trough-youself backward-shooting ct-coring bull.

[Huntsman]

redlance, on 11 May 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

The word on the street is that streaks are working as intended, i have done a little testing on my own and concluded that in my own personal and humble opinion that its just not the case. please watch the video and please share your own experience with the streak short range missile system in the game. i need your help in bringing this to PGI's attention, someday soon there will be SSRM 6's.



thank you for taking the time mechwarriors, now go answer your skype messages. lol. -redlance.

PGI is already aware that splash damage is causing this issue, and they've said they intend to address it. It's in the answers to the last ask the devs.

[redlance]

Huntsman, on 11 May 2013 - 04:11 AM, said:

PGI is already aware that splash damage is causing this issue, and they've said they intend to address it. It's in the answers to the last ask the devs.

then yay for us. but if we don't make enough noise about the issue and offer constructive suggestions then what may end up happening is that SSRMS get nerfed to the point of in-viability. or they may believe that this is a low priority issue. the video also demonstrates that the streaks themselves aren't always to blame, the fact that some mech's lack a way to protect their CT at all is also a cause, hit boxing needs to be thoughtfully re-addressed as well.

i think i also demonstrate that the way streaks can launch though my own mech to then hit an enemy is pretty friggin' ridiculous.

Edited by redlance, 11 May 2013 - 04:25 AM.

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

Problem is that SSRMs aim at CT, shoulders and hips of the mech, so wherever they hit they do damage CT. Simple fix would be moving their lock-on points to knees and elbows.

Edit: Also, LRMs are supposed to target CT all the time, but due to spread some missiles also hit other components or miss entirely. And I don't really understand why devs introduced splash damage for missiles at all.

Edited by Krzysztof z Bagien, 11 May 2013 - 04:21 AM.