23 replies to this topic

[Alioth Sternfeuer]

Hey everybody,

I have always been a fan of the Jägermech back in MW2 Mercs days, and I absolutely love the updated aesthetic Alex has done with the chassis for MWO. I know when the Jägermech first came out there was a lot of discussion about whether or not it excelled at anything beyond what was already in the environment. Specifically, if there was anything it could do that the K2 or Cataphracts couldn't do equally well or better.

Now that everybody has had a few months to play around with optimizing loadouts, and with an apparent move towards more tonnage-based matchmaking, I'm wondering how the community feels about the Jägermech now.

Is it competitive at all levels of play? Good in pug drops but edged out in the more organized, role specialized premade drops? Terrible and bad, and I should feel bad for even considering it?

Thanks!

[Nehkrosis]

The Jager is HORRENDOUSLY viable!

It excels at all ranges, and all variants have a purpose.
Its arms allow you to take cover while still laying down fire, which automatically make it better in the role than the K2 or the 4X cataphract.

I love this mech, and id seriously recommend it!

[Konril]

The AC/20 is a terrifying weapon on the battlefield. They have both a concentrated punch and raw DPS. But since they need 10 slots where the ballistic port is (not to mention 14 tons and more for ammo), a lot of mechs can't use them effectively.

The Jagermech has ballistics in the arms. And because they don't have lower arm actuators, they have exactly the 10 spaces needed to put AC/20s in both arms.

Mechs that can actually carry 2 AC/20s are in short supply. Besides the Jagermech there is the Catapult K2, and that's it. Because an XL leaves only 9 space free in each torso, there are few mechs that can carry both the XL and AC/20 at the same time. You have the Yen Lo Wang, and the Raven 4X. Frankly I'm not sure the Raven should really count as the 14 tons of AC + ammo wouldn't really leave all that much room for other nice options like a large engine or armor.

Combined, and you have a really strong (if slightly fragile) brawler mech that can really terrorize a battlefield.

It doesn't have to be AC/20s either. Two of the Jagermechs have the space and hard points to mount the deadly 3 Ultra AC/5 combo that was up to now only possible on the Ilya Muromets. In fact, 4 Ultra/5s is possible. (Albeit barely.) Although the damage isn't as concentrated in one strike, that does give you a better alpha strike (using ultra-fire) and DPS than just the two AC/20s.

Another side effect of the missing lower arm is that the cannons fire from shoulder height rather than hip height of most other AC mechs. Less of the mech needs to rise above a hill for the cannons to hit their target properly.

So yeah, it's a really competitive mech.

[n00bfish]

I can't speak for competitive play or eight-man premades (because I've never done either ... so far just about ~1500-2000 PUG drops), but I find the Jager is an absolute blast to play and very viable on the PUG field. It's my favorite heavy, especially the JM6-S. You can never have too much dakka. So if you like Jager, go ahead and go for it, and I'm sure you'll be able to make it work for you.

There are a lot of different things you can do with it:

2 AC/20s
2 AC/10s + 4ML
2 AC5 + 2 AC2
4 AC2 (or 5 AC2 on the the JM6-DD)
3 UAC
2 UAC + 2 AC2
2 Gauss

All of these work fine in PUG games.

As for competitive play, my understanding is that the 2 AC/20 build has been used to some extent in RHOD -- but competitive play is a whole different ball game, still in the early stages in MWO, which I wouldn't really worry so much about. A formal 'pro gaming' scene in MWO hasn't developed yet, AFAIK, and the competitive scene (e.g., RHOD) is rather limited as well. The game is still beta so the builds in competitive play tend to change.

It's more important to just pick a mech that you like and enjoy it. The Jager will definitely not disappoint.

Edited by n00bfish, 11 May 2013 - 10:20 AM.

[Davoke]

The JagerMech is really a fun mech, very customizable and fun to play. Personally i run the -A variant with 4xSSRM2, 2xAC5, and 2xMLas with just a few points shy of maximum armor. Makes a fun, if awkward, brawler.

[TheCaptainJZ]

I hated the jagermech at first. It turned too slow and moved too slow. The first thing you should do after buying one is increase the armor (all standard variants have paper-thin armor) and increase the engine. Once I unlocked the basic pilot skills and put in a bigger engine, I started having success in it. Running XL engines is a risk because in this mech, it is entirely possible to loose a side torso. You could have lasted longer without it. I have done it either way.

[Nehkrosis]

This is what i use. the numbers might be a bit skewed as im not at my house right now, not sure there right, but this is pretty much my jager.

it tears things in half.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0d37dc3add7bf4d

[Dershan]

Konril, on 11 May 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

The AC/20 is a terrifying weapon on the battlefield. They have both a concentrated punch and raw DPS. But since they need 10 slots where the ballistic port is (not to mention 14 tons and more for ammo), a lot of mechs can't use them effectively.

The Jagermech has ballistics in the arms. And because they don't have lower arm actuators, they have exactly the 10 spaces needed to put AC/20s in both arms.

Mechs that can actually carry 2 AC/20s are in short supply. Besides the Jagermech there is the Catapult K2, and that's it. Because an XL leaves only 9 space free in each torso, there are few mechs that can carry both the XL and AC/20 at the same time. You have the Yen Lo Wang, and the Raven 4X. Frankly I'm not sure the Raven should really count as the 14 tons of AC + ammo wouldn't really leave all that much room for other nice options like a large engine or armor.

Combined, and you have a really strong (if slightly fragile) brawler mech that can really terrorize a battlefield.

It doesn't have to be AC/20s either. Two of the Jagermechs have the space and hard points to mount the deadly 3 Ultra AC/5 combo that was up to now only possible on the Ilya Muromets. In fact, 4 Ultra/5s is possible. (Albeit barely.) Although the damage isn't as concentrated in one strike, that does give you a better alpha strike (using ultra-fire) and DPS than just the two AC/20s.

Another side effect of the missing lower arm is that the cannons fire from shoulder height rather than hip height of most other AC mechs. Less of the mech needs to rise above a hill for the cannons to hit their target properly.

So yeah, it's a really competitive mech.

Nothing to add, what the others didn't say yet. The Dual AC Jager is one of the strongest mechs in the game. But: You may not want to be spearhead with this and this is important: His setup needs a special role during combat. Wait until things develop and the combat is in full action with most mechs involved then come out do make the reaper with this thing. Many will not notice you first because youre just a Jager, and if they recognize the danger, its just too late, because the Ac's make so much dakka. So you can reach quite high damage output regularly.

[Wintersdark]

Honestly, a good pilot will have a low damage output with an AC/20 Jager, simply because it's terrifyingly easy to surgically rend opposing mechs apart with one. Headshots are always one-shot kills. If you've got a high damage output, you're a really bad shot.

That said, if you're a bad shot it's still a decent build because it simply wrecks whatever it does hit. Nobody likes to take 40 damage to one spot in an instant.

Personally, I'm a 2AC20/4ML man for my JM6-S, and all about the 3 UAC5/2 ML on my -DD. The -S can do it as well, but I had a DD kicking around after levelling them and it works just fine for that. I may try swapping the 2 ML's for 3 MG's on the -DD after the MG buff - it'll be a worse build, but look and sound awesome.

[deff lizzard]

To put numbers: I'm not super comptetitive, but with zero padding I have a 1.81 k/d ratio and deal an average of 320 damage per game with the JM6-S. I have a thread on it, which I'd link if I wasnt posting from my phone.

It's a tricky mech to use because it has very low survivability - it draws aggro from experience players, it has no speed, and a lot less armor than is comfortable for its profile, but...40 alpha strike is terrifying. I get about half of my kills now either from headshots or back shots. I ru. 2x ac20, 2x ml, std 235, and 5 tons of ammo. It's good stuff.

[Grey Black]

Yes. The ability to mount 2x AC/20 and still have decent armor and speed make it an EXTREMELY viable mech.

[Regrets]

Honestly I prefer a standard engine in my 2 AC 20 jager, and prefer that I have them arm mounted to torso mounted (the advantage of stripping arm armor is less than the advantage of arms). So it is the best 2ac20 mech.

I don't suggest UAC5, AC2 AC5 or AC10 unless you are sure what you are doing. Gauss are nice but totally different playstyle to AC20. Medium lasers are a must to match with Gauss as you can manage your heat much better with the Gauss than AC20. Overall I still prefer the AC20 but I can see how many would prefer the Gauss.

[Raso]

I run with dual AC10 and quad small beam lasers in my Jager. The AC10s give me superior range and allow me to rip the side armor of an AC20 Jager apart before it becomes a serious issue. The quad lasers have great DPS for point defense and the short beam duration makes them great for picking apart any orbiting lights.
The build works well with dual medium lasers, as well, but I find that the small lasers make the build more effective at taking out pesky lights. My build also utilizes an STD engine which gives me greater survivability.

[Nehkrosis]

With Regards to Regrets post, i'd say the ultras (since the Host State Rewind) have become the go-to ballistic.
the DPS is large, and with two, you can strip an atlas. the heat is also fairly negligible.

plus i find dual AC20s builds consist entirely of cheese.
One Shot, One kill? i say no skill.

[BoPop]

Nehkrosis, on 12 May 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

plus i find dual AC20s builds consist entirely of cheese.
One Shot, One kill? i say no skill.

well, I agree, dualAC20's is cheese, but no skill? come now.

first of all, they aren't the hardiest of mechs, even though they are called heavies, they seem to fall faster than other heavies.

secondly, with that cheese build you have a limited number of shots, very limited, which means to get kills or damage you have to be a good shot.

also remember AC20's are basically a short range weapon which means you have to have enough skill to get close enough in to put those suckers to work. working them at the peak of their range requires you to be a really good shot. that slug travels slow and drops off.

don't hate the player, hate the game. I ran mine with dual AC20s and one medium laser for awhile. Pretty hilarious and effective so long as I didn't get alpine *sigh*

See, they have their drawbacks, big drawbacks. But there is something so satisfying about that KABOOM of firing two at a time. Reminds me of the cannon in The Hunger Games. (and usually if you hear it, someone might have just died! )

Also, people target the arms on jagers like nobody's business well aware that there is probably an AC20 sitting in that thing. So it does take skill to get in and work one and get some kills, imo.

To the OP: Are they viable?

Spoiler

[King Arthur IV]

yes yeh yeah. in short yes.
loads of jagers and jager builds work well but most obvious has to be ac20 jager.

pinpoint damage 0- whatever the distance is.

[Regrets]

ac10s have a marginally better ballistics speed than ac20 with a lot less punch and AC5 are pure suck. I don't get why guys want to run 2UAC5 when you could run 4 LL or 3 ERPPC. 3UAC5 build is not good and medium lasers don't add much to the 2 UAC5, I'd suggest an ERLL or similar. Even then you will run hot and find BAP hard to fit. Just not my playstyle, I'd rather have torso mounted weapons for sniping, you can strip the arms and put 4 MGs on for lights that run up on your, I think it's just a better build with 3ERPPC than 2 UAC5s+some energy weapon.

Edited by Regrets, 12 May 2013 - 02:02 PM.

[Regrets]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2d429525c43e0d8

[Rustiax]

I am running a DD with 4x AC/5 and 2 ML , use as a long range ac/20 for sniping or short/medium range in chain fire for dakka. Also running an A with Gauss, AC/20 and 4 SL which has a nice mix of close range punch and long range accuracy. The only thing to complain about is inferior speed, manoeuvrability, armor compared to the two Cats but you have a lot more ballistic options imo, the jager is a lot more fun to play i would say and it is viable but personally i'm against AC/40 Jagers.
If you want to have fun try 5 AC/2, 4 AC/5, 3 UAC/5, 2 AC/10.... These are all fun ^^

[Rudugar]

JMS-6 with 4 PPCs is badass. Run it with a 300xl and drop armor out of the arms/legs. Whether you run ER PPCs, standard PPCs, or a combination of both is up to you, but I promise it's amazing.

My version:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4d98da2ba7c7c9f