26 replies to this topic

[Ilithi Dragon]

No, hill-humpers care about LRMs more than poptarts, because they have a longer window of exposure out of cover, since they can't just pop up and down from behind a hill.

There is still only so much deterrent that LRMs will provide to conventional snipers, though, you're right.

[Farpenoodle]

Just putting my 2cs in. While SRMs are nerfed, I'm still pretty confident in taking on most sniper builds 1 on 1 in my cheese CN-9A up close. They probably need a buff but if you get in their face you still do very respectable damage. And it takes quite a few shots for a sniper build to actually put me in a state where I'd actually be afraid of dying thanks to it's ability to effectively shield it's vulnerable parts. Although I do worry that once missile HSR goes in SRMs will suddenly become OP again. Just like how PPCs went from "eh" to OP after ballistic HSR.

LRMs can also be used to decent effect vs poptarters while flanking. If the LRMs are coming from behind there really isn't any cover they can use to get away from them. Not to mention they won't actually know where they're coming from until they hit.

[IceSerpent]

Ilithi Dragon, on 11 May 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

No, hill-humpers care about LRMs more than poptarts, because they have a longer window of exposure out of cover, since they can't just pop up and down from behind a hill.

There is still only so much deterrent that LRMs will provide to conventional snipers, though, you're right.

That depends on a hill-humper. For example, Stalker has arm energy hardpoints higher than the cockpit, so it only needs to expose a little bit of itself. Jager is the same way with its ballistics.

[Felicitatem Parco]

To be honest...My favorite Mech Build to run is the PPC-laden XL Medium because PPCs are the biznatch and a fast Medium can be hard to hit at range. I have always felt that Fast Medium Boating PPCs would be an excellent counter to JumpSnipers because a Fast Medium is hard to hit at long range... but that's kind of like fighting a bouncing fire with a fast fire; it's not a counter, but rather just playing their game.

So, concerning that fact that the 6PPC alpha will one-shot any XL Medium in the side torso: I have felt for a long time that the "best" counter to massed PPC Alphas is a PPC-feedback system that punishes users from firing too many PPCs at once. Not a heat-feedback, but an internal-damage feedback (you suffer apercentage chance of receiving internal damage from firing more than 3 PPCs at a time, or something like that). However, this does nothing to address PPC+Gauss sniping.

Perhaps a PPC-velocity debuff coupled with a minor boost in SRM Damage and a further reduction of SRM Splash Radius would be a great answer to our current Meta Stalemate. Big, slow Mechs are easy to hit with projectiles moving 1300 m/s like the Gauss Slugs, but Lights and Fast Mediums can dodge them. If the PPCs were slowed-down to somewhere in the ballpark of Gauss Slugs, then the current Meta might shift a little because fast Mechs would stand a better chance of surviving initial contact with massed Alpha snipers, while still being able to hit them back.

A SRM Splash Radius nerf would help prevent the slaughter of small-bodied Lights without really affecting their usefulness against bigger targets. LRMs can be tuned seperately from SRMs, as LRM clustering has it's own quirks that need to be worked out... but SRMs don't cluster like LRMs and you don't need to use Splash to spread the damage around the target Mech (whereas LRMs with higher damage but without splash would probably do most of their damage to CT).

So... a PPC velocity reduction coupled with increased SRM damage and reduced SRM Splash Radius would do it for me... that, and waiting for the Hunchback Reticule fix that's coming with the 21st patch...

Edited by Prosperity Park, 11 May 2013 - 05:47 PM.

[Ilithi Dragon]

Honestly, I really do not think that there needs to be anything done to PPCs. It's just that all the builds that would directly counter the PPC/Gauss snipers are underpowered because missiles, and SRMs in particular, are underpowered right now.

Also, an SRM splash range decrease would not be necessary if PGI had their splash damage coded properly. As I understand it, the reason they ran into the LOL MISSILES OF DOOM problem is because when a missile hits, it does its full damage to the section it hits, and then does ADDITIONAL damage to any section within its blast radius. What it should do is check the blast radius first, and then split the full damage damage across each section based on the percentage of that section in the blast radius. That way you could have high-damage SRMs with a respectable blast radius without having them murder lights, because the blast radius would not act as a damage multiplier.

[Emn1ty]

Kitane, on 11 May 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

I understand your point. However any SRM buff has to be considered with Splatcat and other SRM boats in mind.

One-two hit short range kills are not going to improve this game.

Limit Catapults to LRM's. Done. That or go the path of EVE and give role bonuses to particular weapon groups on specific mechs. For example, Catapults are built for LRM's, give them damage/targeting advantages with LRM's making them a more likely choice. Still, SRM's aren't the only thing getting forgotten. LRM's are in a poor position too. I've played over 10 games and done < 200 damage despite firing half my load of 1220 missiles with LRM 20's + Artemis. 90% of the time I can't even lock targets. This game needs to seriously re-evaluate the balance of missiles as a whole and I blame that mostly on ECM.

Edited by Emn1ty, 12 May 2013 - 11:27 AM.

[jaakkomm]

Catapult isnt even worst poptard...