53 replies to this topic

[Ghoulsby]

Introduction

Certainly there are better players to for any new player to heed advice from, and certainly there are many mechs that will teach you a great many things if you take time to tease them out, but I'd just like to throw in a good word for the DRG-5N or DRG-5N© variant for new players looking for their first mech...

I've heard a lot of back and forth over this chassis/variant, but I'd like to point out some of the very valuable lessons I've learned from using it. The build I've been using is linked below:

DRG-5N© Dakka Dakka -- Please Don't Hurt My Strong Arm Build


Things you will learn by playing this build/variant/chassis:

1. How to protect a valuable component.

Your right arm is really your only arm. A Dragon with 2x Medium Lasers is almost as good as dead. Because of this imbalance between your limbs, you'll learn to swivel your torso to absorb hits on your left side. You'll learn to retreat while keeping your delicate and vital arm protected behind the rest of your body. This is something that good pilots know already, but the lesson is easier to learn when it is so cut and dry. You protect your right side, or you die.

2. How to not go full rambo mode.

The Dragon is not a brawler. It is better thought of as a heavy Medium class mech. It reaches similar speeds, has similar firepower, and melts just as quickly when face to face with an angry Atlas. If you try to rambo in this mech you will die. So you must then learn to stay near your heavier mates and dance behind them or stay back and provide supporting fire. If you find yourself alone, I suggest running back to your team, torso rotated roughly 45 degrees to the left (to make rear alpha strikes on your good arm less likely). Just about anything that catches you alone is liable to ruin your good arm or kill you. For learning's sake, it is better to die with your right arm unharmed than to lose your right arm without trying.

3. How to maintain situational awareness.

Did you see that? I think that was a Hunchback flanking my position to my right (...must protect my good arm...). When piloting a mech that is so vulnerable, especially to alpha strikes from Assault class mechs, you'll find that you need to spend a lot of your time repositioning. Two valuable lessons are gained from this: hobbling away from an engagement is better than dying, and you needn't commit your life to every engagement. Shoot until just before it seems it wont be safe to do so, then reposition. I find that I spend about 3/4ths of my time repositioning and 1/4th raining hot lead death on my opponents.


Outtro

Anyway, I know this is a bit brief, but I hope it might turn a few people on to the idea of starting out with a Dragon-5N. I've certainly enjoyed it, and I believe it has taught me valuable lessons about mech piloting that no other chassis could have done as quickly.

[Orzorn]

All great points.

As an aside, the Dragon becomes a lot more durable if your realize that you don't need 20 armor on the rear like it comes with stock and instead reduce that to 10 armor. That way you can have a rather sizable amount of frontal armor and start to feel more like a heavy and less like a medium.

[Ghoulsby]

Orzorn, on 23 April 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

All great points.

As an aside, the Dragon becomes a lot more durable if your realize that you don't need 20 armor on the rear like it comes with stock and instead reduce that to 10 armor. That way you can have a rather sizable amount of frontal armor and start to feel more like a heavy and less like a medium.

Yeah, honestly I wasn't really sure what was considered standard/safe with a Dragon or Heavy Class mech. I run 14/16/14, and I do find sometimes that when using my rear armor to absorb a hit or two when retreating the armor is stripped, so I imagine I can't reduce it any futher, at least until I learn to over-extend less.

[Orzorn]

Ghoulsby, on 23 April 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

Yeah, honestly I wasn't really sure what was considered standard/safe with a Dragon or Heavy Class mech. I run 14/16/14, and I do find sometimes that when using my rear armor to absorb a hit or two when retreating the armor is stripped, so I imagine I can't reduce it any futher, at least until I learn to over-extend less.

Yeah, it depends on your build, really.

A hit and run build might want more armor, about like yours, whereas a longer range build (like I tend to run) can afford as little as 10 armor even on center rear torso sections.

Then again, I've ran that amount even on closer range builds, but I'm a veteran Dragon pilot so that probably helps quite a bit. They way I see it, if you're getting struck a lot in the back, you probably aren't torso twisting enough or managed to get yourself in a really dumb position anyways, but it is nice to have that extra leeway if there's maneuvers you'd like to pull off.

Edited by Orzorn, 23 April 2013 - 06:50 AM.

[Ghoulsby]

Orzorn, on 23 April 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Yeah, it depends on your build, really.

A hit and run build might want more armor, about like yours, whereas a longer range build (like I tend to run) can afford as little as 10 armor even on center rear torso sections.

Then again, I've ran that amount even on closer range builds, but I'm a veteran Dragon pilot so that probably helps quite a bit. They way I see it, if you're getting struck a lot in the back, you probably aren't torso twisting enough or managed to get yourself in a really dumb position anyways, but it is nice to have that extra leeway if there's maneuvers you'd like to pull off.

Oh, yeah, the exta 4-6 points of armor is invaluable in allowing me to pull off the two super-advanced maneuvers known as, "retreat" and "panic."

[ZeProme]

I also want to point out that you can fit FF in it too with that build.

There is plenty of critical slots left to fit a FF. This should help your dragon survive much longer.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d3f3e49b425e08e

Modified DRG-5N(C) with FF. Added extra armor to the legs.

[Koniving]

Ghoulsby, on 23 April 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

The Dragon is not a brawler. It is better thought of as a heavy Medium class mech.

The usual builds I see actually play better as if the Dragon is confusing itself as a light mech.

A similar build to yours but trading range for more immediate damage is this one here. This one is more expensive to set up, is faster, does 18 damage per shot assuming you hold the beam on a specific area of the target, has great cooling efficiency, and runs on the same basic premise. But the right side that most enemies are always trying to on the usual gauss/triple AC/2 build 5Ns is sacrificial instead. Sneaky, isn't it?

The basic premise is hit and run with default speeds of 97.2 kph and tweaked speeds of over 100, this is the fastest dragon possible to allow you to get in, hit, and get out as quickly as possible. Even so, as stated by the original poster you should not brawl. Instead, you can use this rig to efficiently chase down light mechs or to sweep in and mop up enemies while they are weak and busy. Keep in mind

Four heatsinks can be traded to make a twin LPL version, which sacrifices a little more range but does 20 damage in less "hold the beam on the target" time. That's the firepower of an AC/20 with a bit more optimum range to work with. This works as a better light hunter than the twin LL version I mentioned above, however you lose heat efficiency which forces you to adopt the hit and run tactic against anything larger. 3 good hits with both LPLs will take off the launcher on any Catapult, and each hit only requires a half second of holding the target with the large pulse lasers.

However, this Dragon 1C build I just made is much cheaper to make than both of our builds, goes the speed of yours, but uses a safer standard 300 engine that can truly allow the new player to make use of this sacrificial side tactic without worrying about the engine exploding from losing the shoulder too. Again, this sacrifices the right side. There's a simple LRM-10 installed to allow you to score points or potentially kill-steal at range. Once the shoulder's gone, though, it's better to trade and be willing to sacrifice the left arm to prevent damage from going inside your center torso.

The LRMs can be traded for an SRM-6 or the more efficient SRM-4 pack to have a "zombie" build that could still fight after losing both limbs. Keep in mind, though, the idea is to use this challenge to both fight effectively and survive.

Spoiler

The dragon comes from the fog of war to strike without warning. Then shall the dragon leave with only the sound of its victim's tears left in its wake.


Darkness Idea by Koniving. Screenshots by Lordred. Dragon piloted by Koniving. Original gif by Lordred using makeagif.com, extended gif made by Koniving.

Remember, the Dragon is neither the sword swung at you nor the shield used to block you. It is the dagger shoved in your back when you least suspect it, then pulled away as you stagger, only for it to pierce your eye when you thought it was gone.

Edited by Koniving, 23 April 2013 - 08:17 AM.

[Orzorn]

Koniving, on 23 April 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

A similar build to yours but trading range for more immediate damage is this one here.

I'm sorry, but any build with machine guns is inherently bad.

Try this out instead:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...756e0466a782b77

Here's my current 1C build that I've been sporting. It is extremely powerful (and expensive). Don't let the heat fool you, it can fire 2-3 times before shutting down in a row, and cools fast enough to keep a decent barrage going. Proper control means you rarely shut down, yet you deal nearly as much damage as a jump sniping Cataphract while moving 30 kp/h faster.

[Koniving]

Orzorn, on 23 April 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

I'm sorry, but any build with machine guns is inherently bad.

Try this out instead:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...756e0466a782b77

Here's my current 1C build that I've been sporting. It is extremely powerful (and expensive). Don't let the heat fool you, it can fire 2-3 times before shutting down in a row, and cools fast enough to keep a decent barrage going. Proper control means you rarely shut down, yet you deal nearly as much damage as a jump sniping Cataphract while moving 30 kp/h faster.

The machine gun isn't meant to use for fighting, the entire limb is used for sacrifice. Not just the arm but even the shoulder could be sacrificed without fear or much loss. With Ghoulsby's original build, you lose 10 firepower once the sacrificial limb is removed plus there's bad heat issues.

However if by some chance someone gets the opportunity to put the triple MGs to use, you may find this interesting:

• The maximum potential damage per second of 3 MGs on internal critical slots is 3.6 damage. (Rare, mind you. Armor must be gone) in addition to 1.2 to the structure.
  
• Their minimum damage as a group is 1.2 per second to both body and again another 1.2 to internal critical slots if armor is removed otherwise it's just 1.2 per second period).
  
• Double Heatsinks have 10 health and 3 slots, making them easy to take out.
  
• Ammo is harder to go for, but since only ammo is placed in legs, there's only two critical slots to damage making chances of ammo destruction high. Too bad ammo only has a 10% chance to explode. If this were increased, a lot more people would be using MGs.
  
• The MGs will never generate heat, either, and if nothing else sound great, making them fun to use even if they do little to nothing practical against armor.

However with the heat efficiency of the build, you never have to worry about shutting down from using the lasers too much (unless you're foolish enough to start brawling).


Check this out about the 6 MG Jagermech, both its actual damage and how efficiently it could kill anything with just the MGs when engine criticals are enabled, within 3 (unrealistic but minimum required) to 8 seconds (maximum, realistic, giving plenty of leeway for wasted bullets) assuming the core's armor is gone. Note: If gyros and actuators become enabled as damage targets (will be after knockdowns are), any decent damage to gyros will make the mech easy to topple over. Gyro destruction is also a death. Damage to actuators impair aim (lower actuator, no horizontal aim. Upper actuator, no vertical aim. Shoulder, no aim controls on the limb period. Leg actuators being destroyed would each impair speed to some degree without fully destroying the leg; slowing the target down without losing potential salvage cash upon victory.)

(Edits: Thought Orzorn was Ghoulsby at first. Fixed wording accordingly.)

Edited by Koniving, 23 April 2013 - 10:46 AM.

[Ghoulsby]

I'm definitely trying out both the 3x ppc build and the 2xLLs+3xMGs buiild. I saw someone using the 3 PPCs and SRM earlier today which is why I chose the 1C for my third Dragon variant, but I've always wanted to use LPLs (love the wubs) and MGs, so I think I'll adapt that build by dropping the extra heatsinks for LPLs.

Also, Koniving, why do your builds have such high "time till overheat" values? Do you really ever get to fire for 45+ seconds (your 3xMG and 2xLL build has a TTO of over 5 minutes). Wouldn't it be better to ditch some of the heatsinks for more utility, like the sensor pod, or a command module? You can dump all 4 external heatsinks and still have a TTO of 1:15. Am I missing something about how this build is played?

Once I save enough for that engine, of course,

Edited by Ghoulsby, 23 April 2013 - 08:52 AM.

[Orzorn]

Machine guns do not need or warrant defense. Check out the game balance forums for the real numbers of how awful they actually are.

Replace those machine guns with an SRM 4/6 and some ammo and your damage would be greater. You are using 1.5 tons for the machine guns, as 2 tons for the ammo. 3.5 tons is an SRM 4 with one ton of ammo and then .5 extra tons of armor.

Also, you have too many heatsinks in the large laser mech. The base 10 would have been enough, honestly, which is why I increased the lasers to PPCs, otherwise you waste the left over tonnage.

Quote

With your original build, you lose 10 firepower once the sacrificial limb is removed

What?

The sacrifical limb would be the arm with 0 armor in it, in which case I lose 0 firepower.

The other arm is not sacrificial in either of our builds, so that point is moot.

As for the heat issues, they really are not. Anything around 25% is easily manageable, especially for such high alpha, high speed builds. Get in, get out. Keep in mind I have full master on all of my Dragons, so the basics are doubled, as well as me having elite, so that also affects my builds.

Feel free to try my 1C build for yourself. It is disgustingly powerful, and a lot more manageable than you might think.

Edited by Orzorn, 23 April 2013 - 08:51 AM.

[Ghoulsby]

Oh and a big thanks to both Koniving and Orzorn for helping me understand the Dragon's role. Would I be correct in saying that it is basically a hunter of light and medium mechs? Like a hawk or vulture of the battlefield, swooping down on defenseless prey, rather than going for the big targets unless they're weakened?

[Imagine Dragons]

My 5N has triple MGs and two ERPPCs...

MGs are not the DPS of the build, but just something to annoy the enemy with or get lucky by criting something important...

I thought of using a SRM battery instead as of late, but with lack of HSW, lagg, and the awful SRM damage as of late... yeaaah...

Ghoulsby, on 23 April 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

Oh and a big thanks to both Koniving and Orzorn for helping me understand the Dragon's role. Would I be correct in saying that it is basically a hunter of light and medium mechs? Like a hawk or vulture of the battlefield, swooping down on defenseless prey, rather than going for the big targets unless they're weakened?

In my experience its the light mechs that give you the hardest time in Dragons, thanks to the spread out firepower the Dragon has setup... you cannot just "blap" a light mech away...

Edited by XenomorphZZ, 23 April 2013 - 09:00 AM.

[Orzorn]

Ghoulsby, on 23 April 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

Oh and a big thanks to both Koniving and Orzorn for helping me understand the Dragon's role. Would I be correct in saying that it is basically a hunter of light and medium mechs? Like a hawk or vulture of the battlefield, swooping down on defenseless prey, rather than going for the big targets unless they're weakened?

Not lights, I don't think. Most Dragons I've made have issues with lights.

Its likely the fact that SSRMs currently seek towards your center torso, which is also the most vulnerable part of the Dragon.

Overall, I would say the Dragon is a fast striker, usually engages at 300-500 meters, and its main targets are mediums, heavies, and vulnerable or aloof assault mechs. Attacking full health mediums is fine, as well as some heavies (you will likely not come out without a hefty amount of damage unless conditions favor you or you outpilot them). Attacking basically anything but assaults should never come head on, or if you do come head on it should be at a decent distance to let you use your speed.

Generally, you want to strike targets of opportunity or people who are not paying attention to your presence. When they realize you're there or you killed your target, you get out. The reason you don't get closer than 300 or so meters is because you're not fast enough to be able to get away from some of the faster heavies (Such as 80 kp/h splatcats) without hefty damages.

Of course, remember this is all general and also advice I'm giving to your as a newer player. Dragons are almost as capable of smashing faces as other heavies with proper skill and usage, but I'm making these suggestions in order to allow you to get a general role for Dragons. They can brawl pretty nicely if you know what you're doing, how to torso twist, how to manage your heat, and how to maneuver.

As an aside, if you want to combat light mechs, anything above a medium laser (mlas, mplas, llas, lpas) and SRM 4/6s are your best bet. Ballistics are generally not going to help a lot. It can be done, but its generally a lot harder than fighting mediums is. Medium mechs are really the best targets for Dragons, due to your ability to not only match their speed, but exceed their damage (with the proper builds).

All in all, keep this in mind: A Dragon should never been in a fair fight.

[Orzorn]

XenomorphZZ, on 23 April 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

My 5N has triple MGs and two ERPPCs...

MGs are not the DPS of the build, but just something to annoy the enemy with or get lucky by criting something important...

3 machine guns deal 1.2 DPS (.4 * 3). With 2 tons of ammo, your damage potential is 160 total.

1 SRM 4 deals 1.6 DPS. With 1 ton of ammo, your damage potential is 200.

3 machine guns must fire for 5 seconds to deal the same amount of damage an SRM 4 does in one volley. This means your have to either face or carefully control your arms for 5 seconds, whereas the SRM 4 can do that damage and then turn your body away. SRM 4s are also able to fire to 270 meters, compared to the machine guns 90 meters (And in testing, I discovered its actually more like 45 meters).

Additionally, the SRM 4 allows you to lose both arms and continue fighting to some degree.

I would prefer having a dependable weapon system than to waste 3.5 tons on "annoyance". If the Dragon is a striker, then firing for 5 seconds to deal 6 damage is not acceptable when you could have a 3 ton weapon system (one SRM4 + one ton of ammo) and .5 free extra tons deal the same in one press of a button. The ideals of the Dragon are to get in and get out. I do not have time to fire for 5 seconds for annoyance.

[MisterFiveSeven]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8ba7beaf97ca1f7

Having mastered the dragon variants as well, I've discovered that there's really only one thing the dragon can do that absolutely no other mech can do.

I've tried everything on a dragon (ac2s, guass, uac5s, ssrms and pulses, etc.) and the above dragon is my favorite variant because it caters to the unique niche the dragon can fill. You are a sniper with very respectable power, incredible range, and most importantly:

THE ABILITY TO KEEP YOUR OPPONENTS AT EXACTLY THE RANGE YOU WANT THEM.

Speed truly is king. Mobility is the most important factor determining your survivability, and the longer you're alive, the longer you're doing damage.

In addition, in my experience, my right arm is always the first thing to go, regardless of my build. I don't know whether every pugger has been conditioned to fear the ballistic slot or what, but even in this build it's the first thing to go. So I play like there's something in that arm and try to protect it; just like the atlas, torso-twisting like a drunk gorilla just means that your opponents hold their fire until they can hit the spot they want, thus doing less total damage to you.

It is absurdly expensive and with good reason, so its appeal will be limited, but I would rather run it than any other dragon I've built/seen. Definitely mix-maxed, but potent regardless of the meta. You can also cut corners with LLs instead of ERs and cut out FF for a budget version (losing dhs).

[Orzorn]

MisterFiveSeven, on 23 April 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8ba7beaf97ca1f7

Having mastered the dragon variants as well, I've discovered that there's really only one thing the dragon can do that absolutely no other mech can do.

Yes, that's exactly why I built mine like I did. I got fed up one day and I sat in mechlab for hours cooking up and testing builds. I finally realized that, for Dragons to do something unique, they have to run over 80 kp/h, which with an XL300 just isn't enough.

XL 320 can work for those purposes as well if you still want to fit an ballistic weapon, but I so much prefer the XL 360 now.

However, you can still do builds with all weapon slots filled. UAC/5, SRM 4, and 4 Mlas is probably my most balanced XL 360 build.

[Koniving]

Ghoulsby, on 23 April 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

Oh and a big thanks to both Koniving and Orzorn for helping me understand the Dragon's role. Would I be correct in saying that it is basically a hunter of light and medium mechs? Like a hawk or vulture of the battlefield, swooping down on defenseless prey, rather than going for the big targets unless they're weakened?

So long as you're not using a Gauss Rifle build, that's the ideal role. With Gauss, the role is more of a hit and run sniper with weapons on the side to protect yourself from harassment.

In closed beta not only did dragons chase light and medium mechs, it was famous for its ability to bulldoze 'em into the ground and pound the living crap out of them as they struggled to get to their feat. In "5 to 6 months" according to Garth, we will see that again. However the dragon's ability to knock down Catapults and Awesomes will disappear with the fixed system. It'll use an equation of velocity, tonnage, and direction the target is facing and "steadiness," of the target (condition of the enemy's gyro) to calculate successes for knockdowns.

Of course, the reason behind the Awesome's speed in the case of the 9M was to be able to knock down Atlases. Combat maneuvers such as jump jet kicks were also possible (although they weren't actually kicks, just slamming your feet into someone's head to knock them down).

(Example of being bulldozed.)

Spoiler

Atlas bulldozing a Hunchback.

(If that loads slowly there is a Full quality, faster loading version here. Starts a little earlier, keeps going long past the punchline.)

Commandos get no respect. Keep in mind knocking over a stationary target is said to be harder than knocking one that is moving, and low speed knockdowns won't happen with the "fixed" version. Nor the prevailing issue of falling through the map, supposedly.

While it can chase down and destroy medium and light mechs with some degree of ease (depending on the build, not all builds can do this; however my LL and LPL builds with the 360 engine ARE intended for this purpose), their real role first and foremost fast skirmish mechs. The clean up crew. Go for weakened targets. See an Atlas with a weak side torso? Quickly rush in, destroy the side torso, and get back to the rear of the group until another opportunity rises. Dragons always work best in pairs (hence the twin hero mechs to encourage this act). With the exception of sniper dragons, they should never stand still.

Ghoulsby's dragon is a crossover of both the traditional Dragon and the sniper Dragon. The 5N can perform both roles, where certain other dragons can only excel at one or the other.

A similar mech:

Spoiler

Video by 7NationArmy, who placed 4th for medium mechs in the first tournament for MWO with only 7 hours of game time [the setup of the original challenge took ALL scores and matches into account, accumulating them meant going up. Many spent 24 to 48 hours playing, accumulating so many more matches, but failing to beat his 7 hours.]

In this video, I'm leading this pack of three trial Centurion 9-Ds. In the Caustic Valley match, we lead the team to a flanking assault, darted back to save the base, then rushed to the front line to save a stalker in trouble. The stalker died to the 6 ER PPC enemy stalker and Catapult A1 pre-nerf SRM-6 boat, but we were able to avenge them and turn the battle around with no casualties in our lance [this time 4 mechs] using LRMs, shotguns, and medium lasers with standard heatsinks, while packing XL engines and trial armor.

What happens when dragons brawl, and why it will never work against larger targets.

Spoiler

My vid. Was taken as a test of the default build of the Fang.

[Koniving]

(On the previous topic: I agree, MGs are not up to par with anyone standard's right this moment, however a build should never use MGs as the main weapon. The actual idea behind it is to teach you that if you protected the wrong side and you lose the LL's, it will really drill in the following dramatic scene ensuring you will never, EVER repeat that mistake:

"Oh #$#$ oh #$#$ oh #$#$ oh #$#$ I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die!!! I'm gonna $*&# die!!!!!!" rat-tat-tat-tat-tat dink dink dink dink.. "Baka." Dakka. Death.

With your build, if they lose the strong arm, they can react like this:

Oh, I lost 6 firepower. I still got 10. Pew! Pew! (Granted this is weak, it's strong enough to be an "eh, whatever" situation that leads to death, but it won't lead to memorable panic.)

(Keep in mind, part of it is also my large amount of experience with MGs. I run a lot of troll builds for fun.)

Spoiler

Trollbuchet chasing and killing a Raven 3-L (lots of stuff, actually, but that's the highlight. Since there's no music I don't expect anyone to watch the whole thing despite taking on splat cats and more.)

More troll builds!
A playlist of 'em!

Ghoulsby, on 23 April 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

I'm definitely trying out both the 3x ppc build and the 2xLLs+3xMGs buiild. I saw someone using the 3 PPCs and SRM earlier today which is why I chose the 1C for my third Dragon variant, but I've always wanted to use LPLs (love the wubs) and MGs, so I think I'll adapt that build by dropping the extra heatsinks for LPLs.

Also, Koniving, why do your builds have such high "time till overheat" values? Do you really ever get to fire for 45+ seconds (your 3xMG and 2xLL build has a TTO of over 5 minutes). Wouldn't it be better to ditch some of the heatsinks for more utility, like the sensor pod, or a command module? You can dump all 4 external heatsinks and still have a TTO of 1:15. Am I missing something about how this build is played?

Once I save enough for that engine, of course,

To be honest I find that if you shut down, you die. If you die, well that defeated the purpose of fighting now didn't it?

On a serious note: Power corrupts. The more weapons you have, the more firepower you have, the more firepower you have the more you want to use it, the more you use it, the more risk you imply to yourself. Then there's other issues, such as more weapon groups, more this, more that. It requires a lot of thought for a mech that has a balance of weapons, or better firepower in exchange for heat efficiency. Although yes I admit you could trade heat sinks for a beagle active probe and play the scout role. That actually might be handy. But when you get that extended sensor range, you might use it to go after that target you found... by yourself... far away from your team.

The designs were made with new players in mind, and with memories of certain impulses that came with being new. New players have trouble controlling their impulses to overdo it and fire until they overheat. This lets them keep firing until they realize they are in danger, without fear of overheating. It is important to learn the dangers of overheating, but we all learned that with trial mechs. This allows you to concentrate on knowing when it's too dangerous to be somewhere without worrying about "okay, how close am I to overheating." It's a 1.98 heat efficiency for the LL 5N build. It was also built specifically to mop up damaged assaults and heavies without risk of shutting down near the enemy group, as well as to be capable of fighting lights without the issues of many dragon builds. Personally I love the LPL rig because if you can get those shots in, it takes no more than 3 to completely leg a fast Raven 3-L and that was before the temporary speed nerf.

I agree, the engine is insanely expensive. Which was why I threw in the 1C build which works on the same premise and does a bit more damage (20 instead of 18) with less range. The use of LRMs is to allow it some time to deal damage without risking skirmishes too soon, as well as to soften targets during the rush (as done by the Centurions in the video by 7nationarmy in my previous post). Alternatively, SRMs can be used as a backup weapon in case if both sides are lost. If SRM-4s are used, there's actually room for beagle active probe.

All my builds were done without other enhancements, so you could add endo steel and then pump in BAP, additional ammo, a launcher on the side, etc. The other main idea is to encourage modification.

Spoiler

Like my original AC/20 Raven had the AC/20 and 5 tons of ammo with an XL 170 engine (still goes faster than the trial with speed tweak). I shared it. Someone was able to do the same build, sacrificing only 1 ton of ammo and squeezing in an XL 190, allowing it to go a little faster. Another person traded ammo for a medium laser. Personally I later redid my own build, trading a ton of ammo for jump jets, and another ton for twin small lasers.

I seriously use this build to fight against Atlases in brawls, and to headshot spiders. (Months ago, pre-ballistics HSR. It's EASIER now! These vids are before unlocking anything beyond Basics for the Raven 4x.)

Come to think about it, my spare drives are sitting on dozens of unreleased vids of the 2x and 4x Ravens kicking more butt than I ever did in a 3-L. I think I'll go about uploading those right after I try Ghoulsby's build. I'd love to do a triple AC/2 rig with a three-round bust. 1 2 3. 1 2 3. Need more dragon vids anyway.

Me and Verrick (from the vid by 7nationarmy) trying the Dragon 5N Champion trial mech, pre-ballistics HSR patch.

Spoiler

Note: I have always been a terrible Gauss Rifle shot. Otherwise my Raven 4-X would be sporting a Gauss Rifle.
I'm a modest dragon pilot. Verrick is an exceptional dragon pilot. However sniper Dragons are a foreign concept to us. Still we gave it a try.

We did NOT play the role intelligently. Honestly I had the wrong mindset when I went in. Was distracted by the slow nature of the Dragon 5NC. By the time I got into the right mindset (OMG, this Dragon's a fire support mech, derp), I was too weakened to use it properly. Still, we placed second and third on our team (pre lance system). Not bad for a first time with it. Especially since my aim with Gauss Rifles has always sucked. I'm an Autocannon person.

[Koniving]

Orzorn, on 23 April 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

Machine guns do not need or warrant defense. Check out the game balance forums for the real numbers of how awful they actually are.

What?

The sacrifical limb would be the arm with 0 armor in it, in which case I lose 0 firepower.

Confused you for Ghoulsby, Orzorn. Fixed the original post.

Still, MGs are twice as powerful as tabletop, and it has to compete with double armor/structure. So it's as disgustingly awful as intended in all original games. My person opinion is that they could use a range buff (seriously even derringers can fire beyond 180 meters though not accurately). As of right now they are pretty weak. But seriously have a look at what's there. 44 seconds to take out an Atlases's side torso isn't bad for 6 MGs. That's a little more than 4 turns, which is pretty straight forward with the abilities in tabletop. Seriously though when engine crits are enabled, a kill in a maximum of 7 to 8 seconds (6 MGs, after stripping armor) and leaving all enemy components intact would mean huge salvage bonuses. Not to mention be faster than some Atlas versus Atlas brawls.

There's a lot of people crying in the game balance forums. At the moment many of them are correct in the sense that MGs are not up to par. The design however is intended for things unreleased; engine and actuator crit slot damage. Just takes a bit of foresight and math. Unfortunately that's what game development is... foresight, math, a bit of daydreaming, and lots of messages with people crying because stuff isn't there now.