Srms should lock on. Ssrms should fail to launch if fired with no lock. An unlocked srm should dumb-fire as they do now. Both systems missles should have increasing spread with increasing distance. The tracking for both systems should be much more subtle. Increase the radius of the srms turns
I imagine that the closed beta problem of srms tracking (shooting yourself =-P) was related to the odd firing angles on projectile weapons when close to cover. (When an object was between the launcher and what you had targetted under the reticle, the srms would fly out to 90-100m then turn around to target that object. I headshotted myself with srms many times replicating that bug! =-D
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Ssrms Vs. Srms
Started by Ogresan, May 14 2013 06:04 AM
4 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:24 AM
I see what you are getting at. People are probably going to come in here screaming "not-canon" or whatever though.
I will say that in MW3, if you fired a NARC at a target, your SRM could then lock-on and track like an SSRM. So SRM's do gain tracking or homing (in game terms), but with NARC only (NARC gives seeking ability for SRM's and LRM's from TT). That functionality is not present in the game.
This is what I think they should do to differeniate better:
I will say that in MW3, if you fired a NARC at a target, your SRM could then lock-on and track like an SSRM. So SRM's do gain tracking or homing (in game terms), but with NARC only (NARC gives seeking ability for SRM's and LRM's from TT). That functionality is not present in the game.
This is what I think they should do to differeniate better:
- Regular SRM's - Always fire unguided + tracking ability if used in combination with NARC (like its supposed to, with an upgrade of the SRM ammo at twice its normal cost - for additional information read here)
- Artemis SRM's - Semi-Guided, when you fire the weapon, the missiles could be changed to go where your aim cursor is (no tracking ability with NARC)
- SSRM's - The tricky one. I've often suggested the SSRM should be semi-guided instead, but SSRM's should simply be changed to how they behave in MW3 and MW:LL by only being able to turn a certain amount per meter traveled and firing from a certain arc in front of your Mech, unless mounted in an arm, and track the "blob" of the Mech, not its parts.
Edited by General Taskeen, 14 May 2013 - 06:31 AM.
#3
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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:12 AM
The problem with SRMs and SSRMs right now largely comes from three areas, the reload speeds, the damage, and the accuracy.
Starting with accuracy, missiles don't benefit from any HSR as of yet. This means that only the SSRMs reliably register hits. LRMs will do better once missile velocity goes up, but for now they are crap against moving targets. Since anecdotal evidence is the best evidence, here's my iron-clad proof. I took a 30 LRM Stalker into the testing grounds. It cored every mech (even the Atlas) in at most three volleys. Firing from the side it took 2 volleys to blow the arm, then 1-3 volleys to take out the CT (the side torso invariably survived). In addition to illustrating the tracking bug (CT is preferentially damaged even with side-profile shots), this seemed to indicate that damage should be sufficient. When I dropped into a match, though, it proved otherwise. I was firing at a Centurion out in the open on Alpine, lighting him up with TAG. I fired maybe a dozen volleys and barely scratched his paint. I never lost lock, he was just moving. The LRMs weren't registering hits.
SSRMs don't suffer from this (or if they do, then not nearly as badly). They fly very quickly and they too preferentially damage the CT. This gives you very reliable kill damage. Compare this to standard SRMs. They spread their damage quite a bit (Artemis does help a lot, at least SRM6s), but they're still good against large targets that don't move much. However, even if you lead your target just fine, you'll do way less damage than you ought to against many faster-moving targets. HSR for missiles should fix both standard SRMs and LRMs in this regard, at least partially (I assume there will be phased iterations of it, like there are for ballistics).
Now on to damage. Standard SRMs were broken. Splash damage applied way too much hurt, especially to smaller mechs. When you got lucky and connected with a volley despite lag and desyncs, you could obliterate an entire enemy light mech in a single blow. Thus the hot-fix. It was badly needed, but it has lingered a bit too long for my taste (this next patch will hopefully have the first implementation of a more permanent solution to missile damage). SSRMs were nerfed too, though, right? They were, but their targeting is bugged. Rather than dumb-fire missiles that often don't connect properly with moving targets, SSRMs do their low damage mostly to the same location, and they do it reliably. This makes them the superior brawling option against anything that moves at all fast.
Finally on to reload speeds. SSRMs and standard SRMs of the same rating (SRM2 and SSRM2) have the exact same reload speed. This gives the SSRM pilot much higher sustained damage output than they ought to have, making Streaks a superior brawling option. When you can fire your SSRMs faster than I can fire my SRM4s, and when your SSRMs reliably hit my CT and my SRM4s are a crap-shoot whether the hit will even register, then obviously the SSRMs are the better option.
How do we fix the relationship between SSRMs and standard SRMs? There are a few ways to do this.
My preference is to give SSRMs a much longer reload speed than their equivalent SRM. Is the SRM2 reloading at 3.5s? Make the SSRM2 reload at 4s. SRM4 3.75s? SSRM4 4.25s. SRM6 a 4s reload time? Make the SSRM6 4.5s. This would make SSRMs reliable damage but not great for sustained output in a high-intensity brawling situation, while SRMs would be superior for brawling but less useful for tricky shots and much less ammo efficient. It would give the two weapons their own distinct roles to fulfill, which is something that I believe every weapon in this game needs to have.
The above, of course, would be in combination with a total fix to the tracking and CT-damaging issues that Streaks have. Also, damage will presumably be increased for all missiles once the splash damage issue has been worked out and PGI has a fix ready to go, which combined with HSR for missiles should help standard SRMs to become competitive once more.
Starting with accuracy, missiles don't benefit from any HSR as of yet. This means that only the SSRMs reliably register hits. LRMs will do better once missile velocity goes up, but for now they are crap against moving targets. Since anecdotal evidence is the best evidence, here's my iron-clad proof. I took a 30 LRM Stalker into the testing grounds. It cored every mech (even the Atlas) in at most three volleys. Firing from the side it took 2 volleys to blow the arm, then 1-3 volleys to take out the CT (the side torso invariably survived). In addition to illustrating the tracking bug (CT is preferentially damaged even with side-profile shots), this seemed to indicate that damage should be sufficient. When I dropped into a match, though, it proved otherwise. I was firing at a Centurion out in the open on Alpine, lighting him up with TAG. I fired maybe a dozen volleys and barely scratched his paint. I never lost lock, he was just moving. The LRMs weren't registering hits.
SSRMs don't suffer from this (or if they do, then not nearly as badly). They fly very quickly and they too preferentially damage the CT. This gives you very reliable kill damage. Compare this to standard SRMs. They spread their damage quite a bit (Artemis does help a lot, at least SRM6s), but they're still good against large targets that don't move much. However, even if you lead your target just fine, you'll do way less damage than you ought to against many faster-moving targets. HSR for missiles should fix both standard SRMs and LRMs in this regard, at least partially (I assume there will be phased iterations of it, like there are for ballistics).
Now on to damage. Standard SRMs were broken. Splash damage applied way too much hurt, especially to smaller mechs. When you got lucky and connected with a volley despite lag and desyncs, you could obliterate an entire enemy light mech in a single blow. Thus the hot-fix. It was badly needed, but it has lingered a bit too long for my taste (this next patch will hopefully have the first implementation of a more permanent solution to missile damage). SSRMs were nerfed too, though, right? They were, but their targeting is bugged. Rather than dumb-fire missiles that often don't connect properly with moving targets, SSRMs do their low damage mostly to the same location, and they do it reliably. This makes them the superior brawling option against anything that moves at all fast.
Finally on to reload speeds. SSRMs and standard SRMs of the same rating (SRM2 and SSRM2) have the exact same reload speed. This gives the SSRM pilot much higher sustained damage output than they ought to have, making Streaks a superior brawling option. When you can fire your SSRMs faster than I can fire my SRM4s, and when your SSRMs reliably hit my CT and my SRM4s are a crap-shoot whether the hit will even register, then obviously the SSRMs are the better option.
How do we fix the relationship between SSRMs and standard SRMs? There are a few ways to do this.
My preference is to give SSRMs a much longer reload speed than their equivalent SRM. Is the SRM2 reloading at 3.5s? Make the SSRM2 reload at 4s. SRM4 3.75s? SSRM4 4.25s. SRM6 a 4s reload time? Make the SSRM6 4.5s. This would make SSRMs reliable damage but not great for sustained output in a high-intensity brawling situation, while SRMs would be superior for brawling but less useful for tricky shots and much less ammo efficient. It would give the two weapons their own distinct roles to fulfill, which is something that I believe every weapon in this game needs to have.
The above, of course, would be in combination with a total fix to the tracking and CT-damaging issues that Streaks have. Also, damage will presumably be increased for all missiles once the splash damage issue has been worked out and PGI has a fix ready to go, which combined with HSR for missiles should help standard SRMs to become competitive once more.
#4
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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:37 AM
SRM's are getting a pattern change, should make enemy mechs easier to hit at all ranges under 270m without having to lock on.
#5
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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:53 AM
My main point is that in canon SSRMs had no better tracking then SRMs. The only difference was that the streaks wouldn't fire if there was no lock. It was meant to save ammo.
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