28 replies to this topic

[Tennex]

i dont mind it. i always felt that ppcs coold down too fast

[NRP]

None of this is necessary imo.

Just fix SRMs. Brawlers will return in force and crush the source of tears. That's all that needs to happen.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Make it only effect ER PPCs/PPCs, and boom, our 4P bro's are a-ok

[NRP]

Neverfar, on 16 May 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

That's as blunt and narrow and unlikely to "fix everything" as that one cultist guy who said "remove double heat sinks problem solved."

You're probably right. It will only stop the snipers. It won't stop the whiners.

[Syllogy]

Yeah, because AC20 Jagers take more skill than a PPC Stalker.

[Keifomofutu]

Syllogy, on 16 May 2013 - 04:22 PM, said:

Yeah, because AC20 Jagers take more skill than a PPC Stalker.

They actually do. They usually have an XL engine and have to be very careful how long they stay exposed. They aren't as beefy armorwise and they are only really effective from 400 meters out. Oh and the 900 m/s bullet time requires more skill with lead time than the PPCs which are over twice as fast.

Or in short Jagers are squishy and Just die already you #%$#% Stalker!

Edited by Keifomofutu, 16 May 2013 - 04:36 PM.

[Syllogy]

Bwhahaha.

PPC Stalkers do less DPS, often carry XL engines, and don't have a range much greater than 1000m.

AND they have a minimum range that AC20's don't have.

[Keifomofutu]

Syllogy, on 16 May 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

Bwhahaha.

PPC Stalkers do less DPS, often carry XL engines, and don't have a range much greater than 1000m.

Only the bads use XL's in their stalker. A side torso ALWAYS pops first. Are you seriously trying to downplay 1000 range as a downside? I mean with regular PPC really only 750 effective but that is still twice what the Jager can manage with Ac20s.

[Syllogy]

PPC is only 540 effective, and Stalkers aren't the only builds that use multiple PPCs.

And again, AC20's can run up and hug their targets where PPC boats cannot.

[Keifomofutu]

Syllogy, on 16 May 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

PPC is only 540 effective, and Stalkers aren't the only builds that use multiple PPCs.

And again, AC20's can run up and hug their targets where PPC boats cannot.

Well this is incredibly off topic anyway.

I'll let someone else explain why running into hugging range with your XL engine is probably a bad idea.

[Syllogy]

The point is that heat-scaling is not the proper way to balance High Alpha builds, which was the specifically stated problem.

[That Guy]

keep reading. the PPC change was not ment to "fix" boating

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Neverfar, on 16 May 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

it's often that first (or second) grouped shot that is the problem, not how much it is dealt out over time. Indirectly, this only makes the heat management between boat volleys a little easier.

Increasing heat per shot does nothing for the two-volley burst damage of a build. Increasing the cycle time, on the other hand, directly impacts that. This is the best way PGI could have made PPCs less relevant in a brawling situation without making them worse as sniper or fire support weapons.

Edited by Levi Porphyrogenitus, 16 May 2013 - 06:03 PM.

[Yiazmat]

OP, while i typically agree with your posts,  I'm gonna lay your mind at ease here about the swayback. In Paul's post,  he specifically says 'large' energy weapons. I can't make a fancy link to it,  I'm sitting on the john with my phone. But go back and read it again. My swayback, and soon enough, my bj1x will boat ml/sl all day without care... Other than finding a pair of 40 jeagermechs barreling down on me and 1 shots me. edit. nvm. -I- read it wrong. too much time doing the business and not reading.

Edited by Yiazmat, 16 May 2013 - 11:29 PM.

[FiveDigits]

That "group fire penalty" is another misguided balance attempt. PGI introduces another new mechanic that will complicate future balancing. There already is a "group fire penalty" in the game: the heat cap.
If PGI brought back the heat cap to around TT level (30) and compensated with higher dissipation (2-3 times TT level) the alpha issues would be solved without reducing current sustained damage rates, thus keeping the pace of combat the same.

[MrZakalwe]

Ok where do you guys get this information from? I can't find it.

[Karl Streiger]

MrZakalwe, on 17 May 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:

Ok where do you guys get this information from? I can't find it.

Have searched too:
Good idea is to take the link in Syllogys signature...
http://mwomercs.com/...updated-may-15/

there you get a list of upcomming changes with reference

Edited by Karl Streiger, 17 May 2013 - 12:06 AM.

[Ralgas]

FiveDigits, on 16 May 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

That "group fire penalty" is another misguided balance attempt. PGI introduces another new mechanic that will complicate future balancing. There already is a "group fire penalty" in the game: the heat cap.
If PGI brought back the heat cap to around TT level (30) and compensated with higher dissipation (2-3 times TT level) the alpha issues would be solved without reducing current sustained damage rates, thus keeping the pace of combat the same.

i'd say for a starter dump "heat containment" (20% of current caps) and place a hard cap on overheating (140% as a ballpark?) after which it's an automatic blown motor ala out of bounds. the second point is a new one from my perspective after seeing this

http://www.youtube.c...kdEVmc6w#t=577s

Edit:Btw, they stated this change was just to bring it into line with other energy weps, has nothing to do with boating or poptarting ppc's

Edited by Ralgas, 17 May 2013 - 12:19 AM.

[MrZakalwe]

Karl Streiger, on 17 May 2013 - 12:05 AM, said:

Have searched too:
Good idea is to take the link in Syllogys signature...
http://mwomercs.com/...updated-may-15/

there you get a list of upcomming changes with reference

Good thinking- found it in a thread linked from that thread ( http://mwomercs.com/...19#entry2355519 ).

Meh we'll see how it goes.

Still wont help with poptarts

[MustrumRidcully]

The reduction of rate of fire is fine by me. It isn't something that will affect alpha strike builds, but that's also not a claim made by the developers.

Neverfar, on 16 May 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

The second part may work a bit: the stacking penalty with additional heat per weapon of the same kind. It does make me think that the all-energy Hunchback is going to be hit hard (and was not really an issue in Bloat Boat Land).

I think it's not a good implementation. It punishes even low-heat "alphas" that are not the problem. The "big" problematic alphas are those from projectile weapons like ballistics and PPCs, that will deliver all damage to one spot, which is not something lasers can do.

And on top of that, it adds extra complicated rules to the whole system. Lowering the heat capacity is much simpler, and it can even help laser weapons a bit, since IIRC, they deliver their total heat over the duration of the beam, and not instantenously like PPCs or ballistics.

Quote

Yeah, there's internal damage proposals, but will that matter when the bloatiest boats are assaults with lots of internals?

Maybe. Depends on the amount of damage. (If it was percentage based, the number of itnernals didn't even matter)