140 replies to this topic

[Prezimonto]

... in my spider 5k with full armor(I have to play this POS fail boat to unlock basics). PPC boats every time. Either legged in one shot(with full armor) and followed up with a torso salvo, or in one case front side torso(in one shot with full armor). I don't see how a light can be expected to not run an XL. I also don't see how this game is fun or fair if you can one shot any mech to anywhere but the face.

FIX THIS. As a founder I'm not going to go away quickly, but this WILL drive away new players quickly. It just shouldn't happen. There's MANY ways to fix this without random spread(convergence, range lock on times, heat managment, energy systems, ect...), please implement a few soon before this game dies.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Voted Yes, but not for the reason you might expect.

A Spider has virtually no armor, even when maxed out. Any decent Assault bruiser build should be able to one-shot the thing. I know that I've done as much in my Atlases a time or two. The Spider is by its very nature a high-skill-cap ride. You make a mistake, you have a spot of bad luck, and you die. This is healthy for the game in general, as mechs that require greater skill to use but that can make a disproportional impact on the game when piloted well are going to be great drivers of any future competitive scene.

The problem lies in the ability for non-bruiser builds to put out the same or better raw damage as the bruiser builds to, but at nearly any range, and to do so with single-location precision. This makes whole build paths either sub par (and so under used) or crippled, and that's not good for the health of the game.

So again, Spiders getting one-shot is not a problem. Things generally getting one- or two-shot at extreme range is a problem, and is made even worse when the same builds that can do that can one- or two-shot people at point blank range just as well.

[Parliment]

Get a 5-D youll feel much better!

[Hammertrial]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 14 May 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

Voted Yes, but not for the reason you might expect.

A Spider has virtually no armor, even when maxed out. Any decent Assault bruiser build should be able to one-shot the thing. I know that I've done as much in my Atlases a time or two. The Spider is by its very nature a high-skill-cap ride. You make a mistake, you have a spot of bad luck, and you die. This is healthy for the game in general, as mechs that require greater skill to use but that can make a disproportional impact on the game when piloted well are going to be great drivers of any future competitive scene.

The problem lies in the ability for non-bruiser builds to put out the same or better raw damage as the bruiser builds to, but at nearly any range, and to do so with single-location precision. This makes whole build paths either sub par (and so under used) or crippled, and that's not good for the health of the game.

So again, Spiders getting one-shot is not a problem. Things generally getting one- or two-shot at extreme range is a problem, and is made even worse when the same builds that can do that can one- or two-shot people at point blank range just as well.

The fact that you just said a spider can have a disproportional impact of the game makes your entire statement invalid.

A fail poptart has more impact on the game than a spider, because he only has to get lucky once.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Hammertrial, on 14 May 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

The fact that you just said a spider can have a disproportional impact of the game makes your entire statement invalid.

A fail poptart has more impact on the game than a spider, because he only has to get lucky once.

You must not have played many games against really competent Spider drivers. They may be rare, but they exist.

[jeffsw6]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 14 May 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

The problem lies in the ability for non-bruiser builds to put out the same or better raw damage as the bruiser builds to, but at nearly any range, and to do so with single-location precision.

It's not just spiders. We all know it isn't. I almost never get to engage the enemies without a whole section of armor red or wiped out, even in my Atlas. It's not because I'm terribad. It's because PPCs have unlimited ammo, jump-jets and huge range eliminate consequences of over-heat, gauss ammo/ton is too high, and these weapons are all basically effective inside brawling range, as well as at extreme range.

Don't tell me the 90m minimum range on PPCs is crippling, because we all know getting to 90m, or even 270m, against a PPC sniper means you're going to lose much of your armor while doing little or no damage to him.

Again, PPC damage should drop inside 180m to zero damage inside 90m; and its heat should be raised (slightly.) The ERPPC should have a significant heat increase and its damage drop-off should put it at zero damage by 1200m (just outside LRM range.) Over-heating should blow up one of your heat-sinks. Falling while shut down (as in, jump-jet over-heating) should be a crippling mistake that severely damages your legs.

These are not unreasonable nerfs to pop-tart snipers. They would force them into a dedicated sniper role, separating the effective snipers from the noobs who do it because it's currently the easiest way to play the game.

[Hammertrial]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 14 May 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

You must not have played many games against really competent Spider drivers. They may be rare, but they exist.

Those competent spiders would actually have a better impact in the game in a poptart, seeing they're probably a spider D with a PPC anyways. Then they could actually kill things quickly rather than hoping to not get obliterated in a single salvo.

[Hellcat420]

light mechs are not supposed to be able to stand up to the firepower of larger mechs.

[ElliottTarson]

Voted Yes. Nothing needs to be nerfed atm, i can't think of any build i've run up against that there isn't an effective counter for. If you're seriously having that much of an issue with poptarts, in a Spider, then you need to learn situational awareness. I don't pilot light mechs often (Medium/Heavy for me), but when I do I rarely get hit by any kind of long range fire. I generally move cover to cover, as if I were playing a twitch FPS, and it seems to work just fine. By the time the snipers even see me, i'm too close and too fast for them to get anything like a bead.

Try it, might work for you too. If not, well, everyone has their own playstyle...it's good to remember that when you're out in the field.

Elliott

Hammertrial, on 14 May 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

Those competent spiders would actually have a better impact in the game in a poptart, seeing they're probably a spider D with a PPC anyways. Then they could actually kill things quickly rather than hoping to not get obliterated in a single salvo.

Maybe they don't WANT to. Not everyone plays games with "WiN WIN WIN" in mind at all times. I like to win as much as the next guy, but i'll take a good ole' fashioned brawl and lose over *Jumpjet, shoot, land, jumpjet, shoot, land..."

Talk about boring.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Hellcat420, on 14 May 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

light mechs are not supposed to be able to stand up to the firepower of larger mechs.

This ^

Also a major problem is too many heavy/assault mechs per match. It should be 1 per match topps.

[Jukebox1986]

Prezimonto, on 14 May 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

FIX THIS. As a founder I'm not going to go away quickly, but this WILL drive away new players quickly.

This is your personal opinion and nothing more. You have no proof.

Prezimonto, on 14 May 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

It just shouldn't happen. There's MANY ways to fix this without random spread(convergence, range lock on times, heat managment, energy systems, ect...), please implement a few soon before this game dies.

How would one of those changes stop you from beeing a one-shot?

[Mypa333]

Janus Wealth, on 14 May 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

This is your personal opinion and nothing more. You have no proof.

The proof can be found in any personal experience when joining MWO. I was very happy to see that they finally got out the online multiplayer. My first kill in MWO was about 3 weeks after i started playing and my Kill/Death ratio was really, really bad. The game didn't compare with the Single Player campaigns.

I was doing the things that I do now, stick together, defend or attack in a group or with a fellow player, cap when it was the case. I was getting shot by LRMs quite often, then there was the splacat and the ac20 k2, then they brought the ECm, most of them game changers to which we adapted.

I couldn't imagine how this looks for a new player, to have to learn a lot of things about the gameplay without any guidelines, getting alphaed in the first seconds of the game and not even knowing where it cam from. Also, there are people that still hate this kind of control torso+legs because they were used to common FPS, and the lack of dynamics of the game(walking on Tourmaline or Alpine until you get to shoot someone) can make you turn down the game. You must like the franchise to spend so much time to adapt and learn to play MWO.

It must be terribly frustrating and although I didn't rage quit in the first month, it did make me wonder why am I still playing this game ?

Edited by Mypa333, 14 May 2013 - 10:23 PM.

[blinkin]

light mechs are supposed to be fragile. it is the price they pay for being able to move up to 3x the speed of most assault mechs.

rear armor on any mech is much softer than front armor. you don't need nearly as much fire power. a good light pilot shouldn't even allow one of those pop tarts to look at him.

run in hit their weak spots, then run around a corner, wash, rinse, and repeat. i know this is possible because i have personally juggled 2 assaults and a heavy with my jenner. just don't ever let yourself get bogged down in a fight. if you are trading shots then you have already lost. if they are even looking at you then abandon that approach and try a new angle.

if you are doing things right you shouldn't ever be tempted to fire more than 2 volleys on any given attack run. there are exceptions for really dumb or slow targets, but in general you should just line up your bombing run, fire, and then run away.

many will circle a target, but any decent pilot will figure that out and turn the opposite direction to catch them when they pass.

[Zolaz]

Prezimonto, on 14 May 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

FIX THIS. As a founder I'm not going to go away quickly, but this WILL drive away new players quickly. It just shouldn't happen. There's MANY ways to fix this without random spread(convergence, range lock on times, heat managment, energy systems, ect...), please implement a few soon before this game dies.

Yo dude ... you were in a Spider. If you dont want to be one shotted get a real mech or dont stand still. Lights get one shotted.

[Belorion]

I have never been one shot in my spider 5K.

[Apoc1138]

move faster and less predictably, what engine do you have in that spider?

[Vincian]

Hey Prezimoto,

I am sorry to say, that this seems to be a problem of your playstyle. Yesterday I got to master level with the 5D and thus played in the last weeks all three spiders. In all the time I played them, this happened to me only once or twice.
(I remember only one game in Forest Colony, where a Stalker one-shot me. **** happens.) Allthough I have to admit, that I was cored fast in the first few matches with my Spiders.

But I agree with you, that SniperWarrior Online isnt sometimes fun to play. Scarcely when I see the results of SniperMechs, I see a lot of damage. The last time I did triple the damage of a sniping Highlander with my Spider...

Prezimonto, on 14 May 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

... in my spider 5k with full armor(I have to play this POS fail boat to unlock basics). PPC boats every time. Either legged in one shot(with full armor) and followed up with a torso salvo, or in one case front side torso(in one shot with full armor). I don't see how a light can be expected to not run an XL. I also don't see how this game is fun or fair if you can one shot any mech to anywhere but the face.

FIX THIS. As a founder I'm not going to go away quickly, but this WILL drive away new players quickly. It just shouldn't happen. There's MANY ways to fix this without random spread(convergence, range lock on times, heat managment, energy systems, ect...), please implement a few soon before this game dies.

[Joseph Mallan]

Prezimonto, on 14 May 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

... in my spider 5k with full armor(I have to play this POS fail boat to unlock basics). PPC boats every time. Either legged in one shot(with full armor) and followed up with a torso salvo, or in one case front side torso(in one shot with full armor). I don't see how a light can be expected to not run an XL. I also don't see how this game is fun or fair if you can one shot any mech to anywhere but the face.

FIX THIS. As a founder I'm not going to go away quickly, but this WILL drive away new players quickly. It just shouldn't happen. There's MANY ways to fix this without random spread(convergence, range lock on times, heat managment, energy systems, ect...), please implement a few soon before this game dies.

You do know people have died in single salvos on TT for 30 years now right? They died in single salvos of 3 PPCs for 30 years. So taking double armor into account getting hit by 6 PPCs is on par with what 3 PPCs could do to any Spider on TT. It is a combat game. Die with dignity.

[SuperJoe]

You don't have to stand still, you could be the dodgiest little mother ******* scout in the game but all it takes is one shot from some lucky brain dead assault to ruin your day.

and man those poor mediums, too big for how little armor they have, and usually too slow to dodge anything, doesn't take much to cripple them too.

One of the ways i can think of that they could fix this is some proper weight/battlepoint based match making but i don't see that coming along any time soon.

[LordDante]

@ OP stop being terribad ! move ur popo for christ sake standing still in a spider is lethal ,never ever stand stil and no not even behind an atlas. In a spider its all about drive by shooting. go to the TGds and practise that, use jj for quick directional changes. did i mention never to stand still ??? i know leveling up spiders is like hollidays in hell but its worth it . once u have masterd the 5d ur the ultimate scout ! its even more fun than PLAYING WITH MY WANG, and playing WITH MY WANG is lots of fun. so get a grip learn, watch the pros on ytube and u will have the most satysfying ( but not rewarding in a cb way ) fun there is .