68 replies to this topic

[Kaldor]

Yeah, increasing cooldown is probably not the solution.... You will still have the high heat alpha builds. They just wont fire as often and will be less likely to over heat as they have more time between shots to dissipate heat.

Retooling the heat system in this game is the answer.

Decrease the heat cap 50%.

Increase heat dissipation 50%.

At 90% heat start doing damage to the mech. This prevents high heat, high alpha builds from just shutdown alpha firing for which there is no real penalty at the moment. This also effectively nerfs some of the potency of the jump sniper. This will allow more shooting, and probably the close to the same damage in the end. You can still run 4 PPCs, but you have to chain fire them, which removes the insta gib alpha from the equation as its unlikely they will all hit the same spot.

Can PGI do this? Probably not. I have a feeling the heat cap and dissipation numbers are the same number in the code of the game and would require some rewriting of the code to allow for this type of mechanic.

[Joseph Mallan]

Shadowsword8, on 16 May 2013 - 09:48 PM, said:

Wait, you're basically saying that a Dual AC20 jeager should pump up 40 damage alphas without issues, but that a quad PPC stalker should be penalized for doing the same thing. It just doesn't make sense.


Boating isn't about the number of weapons you have, it's about how much of your total damage comes from only one weapon type.

its the amount of heat that the Quad PPC creates. Now the proposed Boating fix is a BS idea. Just put PPCs and ER PPC back to full heat and the problem should correct itself.

[Braggart]

The nerf to PPCs is a start, but it still doesnt stop the 3 er ppc 1 gauss Highlander from poptarting the hell out of you from across the map. The recycle time wont have any effect on that mech, nor will heat adjustments.

So while it fixes the problems for most mechs, it wont change the highlander at all.

Joseph Mallan, on 17 May 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

its the amount of heat that the Quad PPC creates. Now the proposed Boating fix is a BS idea. Just put PPCs and ER PPC back to full heat and the problem should correct itself.

Or go with the boating fix so that mechs can take an ER PPC or 2, and still be able to manage hit. Your go back to full heat will just make them worthless to anything that isnt boating them. I would like 2 ER PPC and 2 Large Laser for a build, but That certainly is not possible with ER's at full heat.

[Joseph Mallan]

Braggart, on 17 May 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

The nerf to PPCs is a start, but it still doesnt stop the 3 er ppc 1 gauss Highlander from poptarting the hell out of you from across the map. The recycle time wont have any effect on that mech, nor will heat adjustments.

So while it fixes the problems for most mechs, it wont change the highlander at all.



Or go with the boating fix so that mechs can take an ER PPC or 2, and still be able to manage hit. Your go back to full heat will just make them worthless to anything that isnt boating them. I would like 2 ER PPC and 2 Large Laser for a build, but That certainly is not possible with ER's at full heat.

I beg to differ. I used a PPC or ER PPC for months, before the heat nerf(?), I had no problem using it. I only switched to large lasers when SRMs were nerfed. I needed to keep my Damage levels up and heat manageable. The boating "fix" isn't. It's a punishment. Remember I don't boat.

[MustrumRidcully]

Shadowsword8, on 16 May 2013 - 09:48 PM, said:

Wait, you're basically saying that a Dual AC20 jeager should pump up 40 damage alphas without issues, but that a quad PPC stalker should be penalized for doing the same thing. It just doesn't make sense.


Boating isn't about the number of weapons you have, it's about how much of your total damage comes from only one weapon type.

I disagree, it does make sense. the Dual AC/20 Jagermech deals its damage at 270m range, the quad PPC Stalker does it at 540m range (or more if he has ER PPCs). The latter can come out of cover, snipe, and hide again.
The former engages at close range and has to commit, no way out. If he took on more than he can chew, he won't get to hide into cover, the enemy can just follow directly behind him and enjoy chewing on his back side. And eve if he did tak eon something he can handle - unless he pops that enemy in one alpha, he will take damage in the process. The Sniper has a good chance to not take any counter-fire, because he is only in sight for a brief time.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 17 May 2013 - 07:34 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Somebody knows snipers well.

Good description Must.

Braggart, on 17 May 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

The nerf to PPCs is a start, but it still doesnt stop the 3 er ppc 1 gauss Highlander from poptarting the hell out of you from across the map. The recycle time wont have any effect on that mech, nor will heat adjustments.

So while it fixes the problems for most mechs, it wont change the highlander at all.



Or go with the boating fix so that mechs can take an ER PPC or 2, and still be able to manage hit. Your go back to full heat will just make them worthless to anything that isnt boating them. I would like 2 ER PPC and 2 Large Laser for a build, but That certainly is not possible with ER's at full heat.

I disagree, if you are using one or two heat was manageable before the heat drop. I tested them quite well. It shouldn't be possible in this game. We fire way to often.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 17 May 2013 - 07:45 AM.

[Petroshka]

Nauht, on 16 May 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

You need to refine your definition of boat. I have never, ever seen a gauss boat. The cost in weight is just too prohibitive.

Gauss "boats" are risky business due to the weapon explosion. I think it's a valid balance.

If you want to "boat" gauss:
- They weigh a **** ton.
- You need ammo, and you probably won't get much.
- They make my head asplode.

With herpaderppc boats, they get plenty of a light weight weapon, with infinite ammo and no ammo/weapon explosions, the only risk is having your coffee overheat for a few seconds. Granted they are adding damage for overheating, but i wonder if this will deter herpaderppcers, they aren't brawlers anyway. AC brawlers will suffer more for this.


Solution is something along the lines of.

[Vapor Trail]

Agreed that more and harsher penalties for heat and shutdown should be the solution. Not more heat without additional penalty.

So....

How is this going to affect the AC/2 Phract and Jager? Both of these are fairly heat intensive already, but aren't gamebreaking builds. If mass of the weapon is the criteria by which the severity of the "boating penalty" is determined, these are going to get a penalty just as large, if not larger, than ER-PPCs when fired together.

The AC/2 boats will get that penalty more, and more often, due to the quick rate of fire, and the desirability of hitting a panel with all four (six?) weapons one time.

And any heat penalty against PPCs is going to have to be fairly significant (more than one or two points per shot, meaning six to twelve heat ) or it's not going to do anything. Twelve heat is an additional 3.5 seconds cooling when you've got twenty DHS. Thats only an additional seven seconds shutdown for two back to back salvos from a Hex Stalker, or three and a half seconds more between salvos.

Hex Stalkers apparently don't care too much if they shut down, or if they do, they take the time to cool between shots. The difference between 17 and 21 seconds isn't much.

[Felbombling]

The Stated Proposed Boating Nerfs... won't change a thing. They're still trying to treat a compound leg fracture with antibiotics and a Snoopy band aid.