39 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

hammerreborn, on 17 May 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

You understood what he said? Seriously, I've read it like 5 times and I can't make heads or tails of it other than OP bad

I understood the words.. the logic. No.

General Taskeen, on 17 May 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

Too bad the stock Awesome can't vanguard

Stock most anything in the game can't do anything.. lol (at least not compared to customized versions.)

[RG Notch]

Livewyr, on 17 May 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

Well.. thank you for being literate. /sarcasm.

Copy pasted from OP.
"First, as a baseline, let's establish roles. (This is according to me, feel free to disagree if you like, I'd love to talk about it."


Go fail to add anything to different thread.
You're dismissed.

Cool so it's not about discussion, it's about trolling. The funny part is you don't even think you're bias is showing, or worse that your bias is ok because your way to play is the right way and all the "unthinking" people are ruining it for you. Keep thinking that calling people who play differently stupid or dismissing critics is good for discussion. Obviously you aren't interested in actually talking to anyone who would think differently despite whatever you think your quoted portion says.
I understand an echo chamber is easier to have a "discussion", but how that helps anyone but those who agree with you is beyond me.

[Livewyr]

RG Notch, on 17 May 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

Cool so it's not about discussion, it's about trolling. The funny part is you don't even think you're bias is showing, or worse that your bias is ok because your way to play is the right way and all the "unthinking" people are ruining it for you. Keep thinking that calling people who play differently stupid or dismissing critics is good for discussion. Obviously you aren't interested in actually talking to anyone who would think differently despite whatever you think your quoted portion says.
I understand an echo chamber is easier to have a "discussion", but how that helps anyone but those who agree with you is beyond me.

Can someone translate?

Google doesn't have language option: "Dafuquese"

[RG Notch]

Livewyr, on 17 May 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

Can someone translate?

Google doesn't have language option: "Dafuquese"

As I said, you don't see and you can keep trying to be clever (how's that working for you..being clever?) but it doesn't change the fact that if you set out to troll you have succeeded. Of course the People of the Red Square will agree with you.
I'd type slower or use smaller words that you might understand better, but why do that when I can do what you did?
Must be easy to seem clever when you just "dismiss" those who see through it.

[Livewyr]

RG Notch, on 17 May 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

As I said, you don't see and you can keep trying to be clever (how's that working for you..being clever?) but it doesn't change the fact that if you set out to troll you have succeeded. Of course the People of the Red Square will agree with you.
I'd type slower or use smaller words that you might understand better, but why do that when I can do what you did?
Must be easy to seem clever when you just "dismiss" those who see through it.

No dice.

No translator available.


Meanwhile: Back at the discussion:

Lupus Arelius: I typically think of PPCs and Gauss and such as long range support weapons too.. but with the current (alpha-strike) meta, they've become the primary means of engagement, with other weapons/mechs supporting them if the enemy gets close.

That's the juxtaposition that annoys me personally. Like the sniper in CoD becoming the main mode of engagement...

[hammerreborn]

RG Notch, on 17 May 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

As I said, you don't see and you can keep trying to be clever (how's that working for you..being clever?) but it doesn't change the fact that if you set out to troll you have succeeded. Of course the People of the Red Square will agree with you.
I'd type slower or use smaller words that you might understand better, but why do that when I can do what you did?
Must be easy to seem clever when you just "dismiss" those who see through it.

Uh...since when has "being clever" become a derogative statement.

I weep for humanity.

[RG Notch]

hammerreborn, on 17 May 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

Uh...since when has "being clever" become a derogative statement.

I weep for humanity.

Some one has not seen Fight Club. Plus it's in reference to the blatantly biased troll bait topic trying to masquerade as a topic for discussion. It seems it's clever to troll in topics to "get good conversations" but when that's pointed out it gets "dismissed'. Good topics are apparently defined as people taking your bait or agreeing with you. Although I imagine it's hard to hear over the echos in the chamber.

[El Maestro]

Do you guys know what happend to the original role warfare ideas?

http://mwomercs.com/...?q=role+warfare

[FupDup]

El Maestro, on 19 July 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

Do you guys know what happend to the original role warfare ideas?

http://mwomercs.com/...?q=role+warfare

N-N-N-NECRO!

[El Maestro]

nnn necro?? means death??? not coming ever???

I liked these ideas very much:

http://mwomercs.com/...le-warfare-cont

too bad they are dead,,,

[FupDup]

El Maestro, on 19 July 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

nnn necro?? means death??? not coming ever???

I liked these ideas very much:

http://mwomercs.com/...le-warfare-cont

too bad they are dead,,,

"Necro" is a term used on forums to signify that a thread was dead and buried for many months until somebody made a post in it to bump it back up to the top. This thread's most recent post other than today was on May 17th...quite some time ago. It was dead. You revived it.

And Role Warfare in general is in fact dead as well, unless you count killers versus cappers as RW.

Edited by FupDup, 19 July 2013 - 02:09 PM.

[Hellcat420]

Livewyr, on 17 May 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

Ok, over the course of discussions in the past (regarding balance, ECM, base capture, etc..)

I've had it in mind to combine them into what I think they really are; Aspects of an abused and neglected "Role Warfare." (PGI had me last year at "Role Warfare" and "Information Warfare")

(I learned from a wild success with the Assault Racket thread that short & simple work best for OPs, and extrapolate further as needed.)

First, as a baseline, let's establish roles. (This is according to me, feel free to disagree if you like, I'd love to talk about it.

Roles:
Scout: Information manipulation (finding enemy positions and generalizing enemy movement)
Harassment: Engaging the enemy in a meaningful way, where they can't engage you back.
Objectives: (Within current modes: Manipulating bases- Capping them, or threatening capture)
Scout Support: Being close enough to your scout to provide rapid support if needed.
Linebacker: Providing rapid mobile defense where needed dynamically.
Light defense: Engaging and killing/driving off light mechs (and meds) in harassment role.
Vanguard: Being forward of a movement. (Having armor to survive ambush, speed to escape it.)
Support: Supporting units, directly or indirectly. (Where missiles come in...and AMS?)
Flank Guard: Moving to the flanks to provide a defense until Assaults can engage.
Attack: (Obvious, attacking.)
Defend: Defending a position or Guarding a position. (Usually involves a sort of camping.)

Distribution of Roles to weight classes:
Light: Scout, Harassment, Objectives.
Medium: Scout Support, Harassment, Objectives, Linebacker, Support, Light defense.
Heavy: Vanguard, Flank Guard, Attack, Guard/Defend, Support, Light defense.
Assault: Attack, Guard/Defend.


Ok, now that we have that, I'd like to point out why Role Warfare is minimal right now.

Scouting: Current BAP can't do what your eyes can do on large maps right now. I can see mechs at roughly 1600 meters, my BAP/Sensor combo can see them at roughly 1150. Scouting isn't rewarded. (Spotting for the purpose combat is, not scouting.)
Harassment: Seems good to go right now, just needs an attitude shift.
Objectives: Not rewarded (much), not respected, undervalued. Currently far too easy to exploit. (Using objectives to manipulate the battle rather than win seems to be a choice by the pilot himself, as capping is very very easy...and hard as hell to defend against.)
Scout support: Good right now, just needs to be recognized.
Linebacker: Seems equipped to handle the role, just never has the information. (or it's someone else's problem)
Light defense: Well equipped- players even far too eager.
Vanguard: Done, but only because Heavies can outrun Assaults to the "battlefield." Not actually done as a vanguard.
Flank Guard: Equipped, but it's always someone else's responsibility.
Support: lolwut? Missiles are a joke. What the hell is an AMS?
Attack: All over that, very well supported, rewarded, and blindly carried out without thought.
Defend: Well supported; but someone's else's responsibility.


PGI KIlled/maimed:
Support: ECM killed missiles and AMS.
Scouting: The only two things aiding info warfare are speed and eyes. BAP comes up short, ECM prevents crippled BAP anyways.
Linebacker: Mangled scouting is strangling Linebacker
Maimed Objectives making them too easy.

Player attitude killed/maimed:
Light defense: is really only Attacking in a different direction.
Killing Objectives (bad attitude towards anyone capping.)
Vanguard: What is that?
Flank Support: Someone else's responsibility.
Defend: Someone else's responsibility.

Own special category:
PPC Sniper Boats- what would you classify them as? (I think: they don't even belong in MW:O leave CoD to CoD..lower the heat threshold and boost heatsinks.)

TL:DR: We have pretty much two main roles right now. Scouting initially for the purpose of Attacking.

Now for the purposes of cutting this off before it gets far too long:

What roles do you think there out to be?
What do you propose we do about making them happen?

actually the reason there is no role warfare is because we can basically customize any mechs to fill about any role we want.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

I like to think that PGI has taken the opportunity to test their role warfare ideas in these weekend weight class tournaments.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 19 July 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

I like to think that PGI has taken the opportunity to test their role warfare ideas in these weekend weight class tournaments.

Please explain how they did this, I'd really like to know, seriously..

Edited by KuruptU4Fun, 19 July 2013 - 02:35 PM.

[KingCobra]

To the OP first of all MWO is not MechWarrior and you cant play NBT= http://www.netbattle...om/nbtclassic4/ =Or even MWL= http://mechwarriorle.../main/index.cgi So why would you even start to claim MWO has role warfare? Tactics? Meta? or even the basic ability to group and train pilots for a role warfare setting? CW might change MWO into MechWarrior but im not going to hold my breath. PGI had basically so far #1 Destroyed what was left of the old MechWarrior community #2 Has not allowed private leagues to form .#3 PGI has taken away the community's ability to even have a free open forum to chat what they like or live chat ability. Let PGI prove me wrong by letting even these few basic things come to pass and I will start calling MWO MechWarrior.So don't blame the community and players blame the real culprets in this mess PGI and IGP.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

KuruptU4Fun, on 19 July 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

Agent 0 Fortune, on 19 July 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

I like to think that PGI has taken the opportunity to test their role warfare ideas in these weekend weight class tournaments.

Please explain how they did this, I'd really like to know, seriously..

It must have been my dry sense of humor that masked the sarcasm.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 19 July 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

It must have been my dry sense of humor that masked the sarcasm.

[Funckadelic Mayhem]

Hellen Wheels, on 17 May 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

Do any of the 8v8 groups play ad hoc missions? Like "Snow White" and the seven dwarfs? Escort the Mech that Can't Shoot? Red Rover Red Rover (ok, that one needs a longer time limit to do one on ones)? King of the Volcano?

Or is it so hard to set up matches with agreed upon conditions for victory (no matter what the "report" may say.)

Or is it that there are so few in the 8 man queue?

Nobody running any league for 8 mans where ad hoc stuff can be reported? Or even an individual ladder with reporting based on the honor system? Have those halcyon days of community run fun just disappeared?

[jakucha]

Role warfare won't really exist or be able to until the tonnage limit update, plain and simple.

Edited by jakucha, 19 July 2013 - 03:08 PM.

[Unbound Inferno]

Livewyr, on 17 May 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

Own special category:
PPC Sniper Boats- what would you classify them as? (I think: they don't even belong in MW:O leave CoD to CoD..lower the heat threshold and boost heatsinks.)

The PPC boat currently fills these roles all at once;

Roles:
Scout: Information manipulation (finding enemy positions and generalizing enemy movement)
Harassment: Engaging the enemy in a meaningful way, where they can't engage you back.
Objectives: (Within current modes: Manipulating bases- Capping them, or threatening capture)
Scout Support: Being close enough to your scout to provide rapid support if needed.
Light defense: Engaging and killing/driving off light mechs (and meds) in harassment role.
Support: Supporting units, directly or indirectly. (Where missiles come in...and AMS?)
Attack: (Obvious, attacking.)
Defend: Defending a position or Guarding a position. (Usually involves a sort of camping.)

Distribution of Roles to weight classes:
Heavy: Vanguard, Flank Guard, Attack, Guard/Defend, Support, Light defense.
Assault: Attack, Guard/Defend.

Think that covers it... and why the game meta is so... boring.