40 replies to this topic

[Karr285]

Need longer Cooldowns. ppc - 4 seconds, ER PPC 6 seconds, gauss 5 seconds.

[HighlandCoo]

Not sure if Trolling.. or serious.

[Mister Blastman]

6 seconds for all PPCs--both ER and Regular.

Still won't fix jump sniping and won't address the greater problem--broken heat system and convergence.

[pencilboom]

I think OP has a point and I think it's where the direction the game is going. On 21st May PPC cycle rate is going to be bumped up. I came from general FPS game like planetside 2, BF3, COD, CS, and generally all long range weapon has it's risk and reward.

Reward: good damage, long range, can even one hit kill people.
Risk: generally has long reload time/cycle, huge risk when you're getting jumped in close quarter

If a sniper weapon can go full auto just as fast as the medium/close range weapons while still having a greater damage, why would anyone take medium/close range weapons?

The current popular loadout 2PPC&1GR is already a beast at all range. It has extremely good range, It has good punch, it has pinpoint instant damage, the heat is completely managable, weapon cycle rate is just as fast.

[Lupus Aurelius]

No. Unsubstantiated subjective opinion.

Edited by Lupus Aurelius, 20 May 2013 - 10:02 AM.

[Syllogy]

Lets just make everything have a 10 second recycle time. That'll fix all of our balance issues, right?

[Terror Teddy]

The problem is not cycle times but rather the convergence.

Short range weapons have the drawback of limited range where they are worse at range - but there is no drawback at all for longer range weapons when they brawl.

A better way to fix this would be to have a reduced convergence the closer an enemy is under optimal range - something that would affect ALL weapons.

A face hugging enemy 1 meter from an atlas means that a torso mounted Gauss would essentally have ZERO convergence.

At 330 meters it would have 50% convergence with other weapons so they would not hit the exact same spot.

Arm moutned weapons would fair a bit better due to their movement but they would still have a slight problem depending on how wide the mech is.

Edited by Terror Teddy, 20 May 2013 - 10:08 AM.

[Karr285]

they wont touch convergences, only other fix is recycle times.

[Mister Blastman]

Karr285, on 20 May 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

they wont touch convergences, only other fix is recycle times.

Then it will kill the game.

[Karr285]

Mister Blastman, on 20 May 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

Then it will kill the game.

sniper weapons with a longer recycle will kill the game?

[Felbombling]

Syllogy, on 20 May 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

Lets just make everything have a 10 second recycle time. That'll fix all of our balance issues, right?

You find extreme movement to one direction a complete joke and mock the OP, but the opposite situation isn't a problem? Medium Lasers have had their recycle times lowered by a factor of three ffs. All the OP suggested was moving the heavy weapons to the longer time frame. I see no mention at all of the middle ground support weapons. The game can still be fun with a change like this... it is not as if you are waiting twenty seconds to fire your lone gun in World of Tanks, now is it?

[Terror Teddy]

Karr285, on 20 May 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

they wont touch convergences, only other fix is recycle times.

Why not - it would only improve the game as weapon ranges would now suddenly have another tactical depth since you might want to exchange a ERPPC to X4 ML to have something useful up close.

[Mister Blastman]

Karr285, on 20 May 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

sniper weapons with a longer recycle will kill the game?

No. PGI's lack of willingness to fix the broken convergence system, will.

[Lupus Aurelius]

Sniping weapons are not just sniping weapons, they can be use closer ranged as well. Giving a AC20/SRM/LPL/ML close range brawling with the ability to fire 2-3 times faster than the "sniper" fit ERPPC/PPC/Guass negates the ability to defend at close range. And what of the AC2, UAC5, AC5, AC10 , aren't those "sniper weapons" as well? And lets not even mention LRMs...

No, this is not balance, nor does it represent TT or anyu other MW computer game that has ever existed.

[Terror Teddy]

Syllogy, on 20 May 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

Lets just make everything have a 10 second recycle time. That'll fix all of our balance issues, right?

1. Go back to basic armour
2. Split weapon damage into 10 second DPS
3. Chop up the 10 seconds into different chunks of cycle time for each weapon.

AC/20 could do 5 damage each 2,5 seconds and while that wont SOUND like much it would be felt a lot more if your armour is half of what it is and it is.

LRM20 could do 2 damage per second as it spawns LRM's towards an enemy.

Hell, we might even have had an option to select what type of gun we want, like an actual AC20 that DOES fire once every 10 seconds but unloads those 20 damage at once and instakills a light enemy since we would have the actual TT ratings of armour.

ALPHA damage would also be more interesting since an alpha strike was usually delivered during ten seconds and not ONE like we have in MWO.

I'm telling you, it would work.

[Eleshod]

Misery just got released they'er not gonna touch it's biggest weapon system. Nerfing peeps and gauss will lower the misery's effectiveness and therefore hurt sales on it.

Edited by Eleshod, 20 May 2013 - 10:27 AM.

[Terror Teddy]

Lupus Aurelius, on 20 May 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

No, this is not balance, nor does it represent TT or anyu other MW computer game that has ever existed.

I'm talking about adding convergence limits to ALL weapons, not just "sniper" weapons. They would still do the damage but how well will you get your X6 AC2 Jager to aim his arms towards the jenner sniffing it's crotch within 3 meters?

The arms cannot ALIGN in such a tight angle towards it's center torso. Damage is just fine but the guns would have problems hitting the same spot on an enemy extremely close.

It sure as hell would give an incentive to use more balanced builds than these X4-6 LL monsters we have seen and actually USE close range weapons when appropriate.

Eleshod, on 20 May 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

Misery just got released they'er not gonna touch it's biggest weapon system. Nerfing peeps and gauss will lower the misery's effectiveness and therefore hurt sales on it.

Pfft.

They've nerfed Gauss before and will do so again if needed.

I'm not aiming to cripple ONE system of weapons but rather add tactical choices and pros and cons to ALL weapons so that there is an actual INCENTIVE to use something smaller than an ERPPC on a Stalker that people like to spam so much.

[Ph30nix]

PPC's are serving the same function they did in almost every mechwarrior game, high heat good range and damage.

problem is the laser weapons are doing really CRAPPY in the heat department. In every other mechwarrior game i could fire medium lasers almost all day even if i had a bunch of them (depending on the mech of course) and i had the heat sinks to cover it.
i mean right now an awesome isnt really any better at using 8 medium lasers then a hunchback is. Since they both have about the same heat restrictions. The awesome would run out of room for heatsinks before tonnage.

im fine with the 4 second PPC time added, but frankly i think laser weapons need some loving. The fact they suffer with both their damage over a duration function (which has its perks just not when paired with its drawbacks) combined with fact that its cooldown doesnt even START until the beam duration ends.

makings good balanced weapons crappy just to get people to use the unbalanced crappy weapons isnt a good fix.

also convergance would only hurt brawlers it wouldnt touch the PPC boats and poptarts that people are really crying about.

[pencilboom]

I'd say that the problem that comes with PPC/ERPPC and categorizing them into the sniper category is due to the fact that it has extremely good range, fast bullet travel speed, and deals a lot of damage in a single shot.

AC/2, UAC/5, AC/5, AC/10? they don't fall into the category perfectly.
Good range? Yes.
Fast bullet travel speed? AC/2, yes, the rest is average.
Deal a lot of damage in a single shot? AC/10 yes, the rest is not.

IMO, Gauss Rifle is "quite where it's supposed to be" currently.
It weighs a lot, requires a lot of crit space, requires ammo, and very fragile. So I guess it's kinda fair to have it's drawbacks..

Terror Teddy, on 20 May 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

I'm not aiming to cripple ONE system of weapons but rather add tactical choices and pros and cons to ALL weapons so that there is an actual INCENTIVE to use something smaller than an ERPPC on a Stalker that people like to spam so much.

^this

Edited by pencilboom, 20 May 2013 - 10:39 AM.

[Lupus Aurelius]

Terror Teddy, on 20 May 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

I'm not aiming to cripple ONE system of weapons but rather add tactical choices and pros and cons to ALL weapons so that there is an actual INCENTIVE to use something smaller than an ERPPC on a Stalker that people like to spam so much.

And the best way to do that is address the heat system and the fitting system. Limit crit slots that can be used for weapons systems in each section. Have heat be a hard cap, with more heat sinks just increasing the rate of heat dissipation.

Heat sinks adding heat capability and no limitation to how many crits can be used for specific catagories of weapons is the root cause for multiple issues. "Corrective Action" needs to address the actual root cause, not repeated nerfs and buffs to weapon systems.

This would limit ALL MECHS equally, prevent boating of any larger weapon systems, and drive more "balanced" builds.

(Except AC2 boating Jagers and Cataphracts, which would still be able to boat. That would have to be limited as well, in order to be "balanced")

Edited by Lupus Aurelius, 20 May 2013 - 10:42 AM.