9 replies to this topic

[Mazzyplz]

something is really wrong with reasoning behind balances in this game.

let's look a bit at the timeline, shall we?



2-first missiles were "OP". following a traumatic event called the LRMapocalypse, PGI nerfs ALL MISSILES. [FACEPALM #1] even though one kind homes in 1000 meters and the other you have to aim at 200. ok, pgi makes the hardest weapon to use by range and aim no longer the strongest -as it should be. fine. many players favorite builds go in the dumpster. ok.
ppc boats like the stalker exist at this point in time (please note) but the canon ppc boat, AWS, plain sucks.


-then they buff PPC, ok. things are going more or less ok for a while until they release highlander, people start to complain PPC is "OP". many many complains are about exclusively poptarts and this is "OP" QQ. ok.


-what does PGI do? they release a hero stalker [FACEPALM#2], with ballistic and PPC capacity; the misery is a monster, if you thought highlander or atlas had a high alpha with that energy/ballistic combo, then spread legs wide for misery, not only that, it has ludicrous ammounts of armor too, like any stalker (why couldn't you give it a bunch less armor like some heroes have already)
this is completely beyond any logic.


-QQ goes thru the roof, this is understandable. sure, so PGI decides do NERF PPC, instead of poptarting with JJ. [FACEPALM#3]
now your ERPPC spider can only shoot 1 every 4 seconds... instead of nerfing the AC40 K2 catapult or the Gausspult, what do they nerf? the ppc K2, the weakest of the weak, the only
model that overheats and has a laughable 20 alpha.
yes, put your AWS, PPC K2 and PPC spider in the trash already. worst of all it doesn't affect mechs that can jumpshoot them, since they won't be using it more than every 4 seconds.



i'm not even going to touch the ECM/BAP fiasco, they decide to nerf after it becomes a regular part of metagame, instead of when it was released, and how it broke the previous metagame.
but think about this; we now know streaks are broken, always hitting CT, and what's PGI's response?
make finally a counter for ECM, like they can't think a day ahead of what they do, obviously this will trigger a streak cluster**** of epic proportions.. [FACEPALM#4]


i'm sure many more blunders are to come.



why break the metagame every month?!? why not build onto it, this seriously pushes my buttons; this knee jerk type of balancing obviously does not follow any type of plan or greater scheme, all it does is break the builds that players have worked on and put in the mech design subforum. you can't blame the players for crying to nerfs left and right, but developers should be aware that these guys haven't thought these things through.
and the AC40? workin as intended. but ppc isn't. i would say that's hilarious, if it wasn't plain infuriating

Edited by Mazzyplz, 17 May 2013 - 07:23 PM.

[JokerVictor]

I'm beyond caring. Uninstall is coming fast unless they do something to fix this. And next month isn't good enough.

I decided to try a wide variety of old builds today, just to see what's still viable in my elo bracket. Only thing I had any success with was gauss, ppc's, and LL's. Everything else got me murdered in short order before I could get any damage out. Just so incredibly tired of entire teams of snipers... it's sucked all the fun out this game.

I've played the hell out of this game, but I still feel like I wasted my money. What a shame.

[Blackadder]

You cant build a meta game when the core mechanics are not functional or complete. Since PGI only took portions of the core mechanics from the TT game, its created issues, that have never been resolved. They will either need to add additional mechanics to balance around from TT or alternatives they come up with for ones that they cant add.

its possible there is enough to work with currently in game, if they revamp some aspects like Heat among others. The problem we see though is every time they add a new piece of support equipment or weapon upgrade like artemis or ECM it breaks the game balance.

At this point, what should happen is HSR for missiles being put in , rechecking and tweeking heat/convergence/range/mech hardpoint system , and then general balance passes on all weapons systems to get the game where they want it. At that point you could then slot in the clan equipment and weapons without breaking things to bad, although many clan systems and 3050+ equipment would have to diverge from TT in order to maintain general balance.

however, the major drawback to doing something like this will be the time intensive nature, as well as the resources needed, and the delays it will create. Absent doing something like this though, i personally do not see this game ever really being fixed, and feel it will always be a game where the latest FOTM build is king, and constantly changing as new equipment and weapons systems are introduced.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

As we are still in beta stage, I guess data collection.

It gets frustrating, but I'm fine with the progress we've had.

Nevertheless, it would be awesome if we could get a peek at how the balancing process works with the devs, as that fine post on the bug hunt for the HUD issue we had.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

The only "knee jerk" change I recall was in response to missile splash damage doing twice (or more) damage than intended against some (most?) mechs.

Valid ECM balancing, for example, is (finally) coming next week after nine months of RVN-3Ls and COM-2Ds maxed with streaks dominating the light class (except in the hands of a brilliant pilot, then the JR7-F with 6x ML rules).

Changing the cooldown time for PPCs is not, in my opinion, the right move to balance PPCs, but they have the gameplay telemetry ... I don't.

Changing the speed and spread patterns for missiles is coming, which will probably be a good thing ... and when HSR comes for missiles, it will change the game again.

It seems like each system gets a balance review on a cyclic basis ... things will continue to change at PGI's pace.

[Shadowsword8]

Mazzyplz, on 17 May 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

2-first missiles were "OP". following a traumatic event called the LRMapocalypse, PGI nerfs ALL MISSILES. [FACEPALM #1] even though one kind homes in 1000 meters and the other you have to aim at 200. ok, pgi makes the hardest weapon to use by range and aim no longer the strongest -as it should be. fine. many players favorite builds go in the dumpster. ok.
ppc boats like the stalker exist at this point in time (please note) but the canon ppc boat, AWS, plain sucks.

Both SRM and Streak had a damage-to-weight-to-heat ratio far above anything else, and needed some nerf. Proff of it: all the whining about brawling beinf feaf just because just one weapon was nerfed. The current hotfix may or may not be overdoing it, but if you can't even admit the need for one, you have no credibility o speak about balance.

Quote

-then they buff PPC, ok. things are going more or less ok for a while until they release highlander, people start to complain PPC is "OP". many many complains are about exclusively poptarts and this is "OP" QQ. ok.

-what does PGI do? they release a hero stalker [FACEPALM#2], with ballistic and PPC capacity; the misery is a monster, if you thought highlander or atlas had a high alpha with that energy/ballistic combo, then spread legs wide for misery, not only that, it has ludicrous ammounts of armor too, like any stalker (why couldn't you give it a bunch less armor like some heroes have already)
this is completely beyond any logic.

From the way you speak about it, you obviously don't own a Misery. Here's a hint: anything the Misery can do, another Stalker or Higlander can do just as well, or do better. Introducing this Hero mech didn't have any effect on the meta.

[Ralgas]

It's amazing how so many fail to grasp the point of the 4 sec change, even after it was spelled out for us.

Quote

Forgot about the level of assumptions that would be made about the PPC change.

Let me clarify, this is not a change to "nerf" boating/high alpha builds/"poptarting". It's a change to put the refire rate of the PPC back in line with the rest of the large energy weapons.

Under investigation right now:
To curb boating with high alphas... we are testing a system that induces a heat scale when firing multiples of the same weapon within a specific time frame. The more weapons fired of the same type, the higher the scale climbs.

Possible internal damage on certain heat levels of the player's Mech. If you blast past your shutdown threshold and then some, you start to take damage internally.

Investigation items are not locked in and are exactly that... thoughts and tests. Do NOT go flying off the handle about how this won't work or that won't work until we make an official post. It will severely help your blood pressure.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2355607

Edited by Ralgas, 17 May 2013 - 09:11 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

someone was bored last night...

[Blackfoot]

I agree with alot of what you're saying.

It seems the overnerf of missiles had the effect of making people not want to use them. So in that case PPC's, guass, AC20 and such became the new normal. HSR for these systems made them even more viable.

And I agree, why make another counter to ECM? Everyone has gotten used to it by now. Why not do it months and months ago when every other thread on the forums was an ECM rage thread.

And releasing the Highlander at that time just made the problem worse. I never even heard the word "poptart" around here before the highlander came out. So then the forum was flooded with cries of, "Ermagawd, PPC's are OP!" Which IMHO they were about where they needed to be if some of the other weapons were being used instead of only them.

I still play this game some, not as much as I would like to because I WANT to like this game soooo badly but everything is so slow in coming and things get "tweaked" usually for the worst. At this rate it will easily be another year before we get a bug-free tuned up version of CW and only Jesus knows how long for the clans to be added and "balanced."

Edited by Blackfoot, 17 May 2013 - 10:54 PM.

[Xendojo]

Do you people not remember that the splash mechanic on ALL MISSILES was broken? That missile splash was doing more damage than the actual missile impact? That's why all missiles were toned down, until they could work out a fix for the broken splash mechanic.

SO! Missiles get taken out and suddenly....DIRECT FIRE!! Yes now direct fire builds dominate, cookie cutter builds everywhere. Does not matter what chassis you drive, it will have the same basic loadout: High alpha direct fire.
So did you all just forget that missiles were hit with the nerf bat for a reason?

Score w|-|ores and stat mongers are really the only people left playing, and you wonder why the meta is screwed? Real awesome testing going on when KDR and damage dealt are the main motivation for the majority of player base.

I have stopped playing since mid April, because i know how out of whack it is right now. I hope missiles become meaningful again real soon, so we can have an actual meta-game again.

Remember that 1/3 of our weapons are nerfed into the ground, so what does that leave? That's right, ballistics and energy weapons. So yeah.....expect high alpha direct fire builds until the missile fix makes it in.

EDIT: For the last month or so ill hop on and drop about once every week. The last time i had to dodge missiles was in march.

Edited by Xendojo, 18 May 2013 - 04:11 AM.