16 replies to this topic

[Iron Savior]

I've noticed the amount of times a commander takes up the reigns is about 1/15. I've also noticed that when I take command and actively issue orders, the win rate is a steady 70% or so, as opposed to the general 55% or so I'm used to in pugs. At the very least, I consistently see a better team cohesion when an active commander is present, than when one is not. Players are more likely to stay together and cap when told so. They are also more likely to properly react to new or unseen threats and coordinate ECM and AMS coverage and TAG usage.

Take command and make it noted at the onset of the match. When I grab commander, I IMMEDIATELY shout that I've assumed command into team chat in all caps. It gets their attention. Something about white text.

Depending on your style and strategy, rearrange lance members as you see fit. I put scouts and mediums in one, and heavys/assaults in another. I use a med/long range misery for command so I usually order the assault lance to stay on me. I then tell the scout lance to capture bases, or stick together and circle strafe targets. A single assault goes down very fast to the wolf pack, and they're fast enough to isolate targets and retreat quickly when needed. Not that they do.

The command console is NOT NEEDED and is a WASTE OF TONNAGE as it is, as far as I'm concerned. You do not need to use 3 tons to be commander; anyone can be comm as far as I've seen. I believe the CC just lets you issue orders on the map. However, until a large overlay in the world appears, I feel it's useless, as there's too many targets flooding the HUD generally anyway and most people don't check the map that often. Aside from that you can just call out sectors of intereest and targets as you see fit.

Unless you're a scout commander I recommend staying in the middle or rear most of the time and surrounding yourself with friendlies. It doesn't seem like much but everyone being told to do a single thing is a big help because atl east they all have the idea now.

If the match is assault I highly recommend deathballing it and keeping yourself in the center, orders are often not needed other than to remind them to focus fire, or to point out flankings or targets. If you feel confident you can catch any scout or fast mediums, I'd suggest deathballing in every match regardless of game type. If it's conquest or whatever and you're grabbing points as a big group, any light lance out for caps is going to just fold in half when they run into you.

I often congratulate and compliment the team once the score is in their favor and the advantage is taken. Reassuring them is just as important as telling them what to do. If they aren't confident, they'll abandon the plan when they take sufficient damage.

I often roleplay as an AI command program operating out of a regular stalker pilotted by a stupid ********, who takes over when the AI program is damaged.

Other times I just roleplay as a stupid ********.




Edit: More on my build. I have TAG, BAP, as well as Artemis. I feel as commander unless you really have the advantage, you're meant more for supporting your team. I still do a lot of damage, but I feel that's more because my mech has good range, so I don't have to actively look for targets.

Edited by Iron Savior, 22 May 2013 - 07:36 PM.

[1453 R]

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL.

Anyways. Good to know you take the role seriously, but a lot of public players will generally ignore a commander's orders unless he's telling us to do what we were already planning on. I generally know where I need to be and what I need to be doing in a match by this point and will coordinate with others as I can, provided they're not idiots. Sometimes a good commander can be a big help, but most of the time I don't give them any more heed than I'd give any other advice some pubbie throws my way.

That's not to say I don't listen to commanders, or pubbies for that matter - they just have to actually demonstrate possession of a clue first.

Edited by 1453 R, 23 May 2013 - 10:32 AM.

[Ninthshadow]

There seem to be a few things which need to be clarified here I think.

Command Console is currently a placeholder item. It does nothing right now, literally. As such, it does not even need to factor into things.

However several of the core elements here are sound. Little communication is better than none in almost all circumstances. When in doubt I believe the commander spot should be filled.

People should have more confidence to hit that button on the battle grid. If you're still unsure if you would be any good at it, take command of your lance first. It seems to be a little known fact you can become a Lance leader as well as a team commander. After a few rounds directing your lance I have no doubt that most people will find directing the team a little less intimidating.

Also clear up a few misconceptions people might have. It is not a full-time job and you do not need to be running some kind of 'command mech' to give it a go. The smallest changes are the most important when it comes to taking command and you will not be spending the majority of the match with your battlegrid open.

As it's been said already, the color change to text makes a big difference. It sticks out and makes it that much more likely for random mechwarrior to catch the order and maybe even be nice enough to keep it in mind. Here's something simple you can try even when you're not in command. As you fight quickly type the letter of who you are fighting. You'll be amazed how many Puggers will switch targets with just a letter in the chat box. Ever watched the NGNG team and heard them call out targets? that's what you're doing, quick and dirty style. If you're a fast typer, put "Hitting E" or something similar so you people don't confuse it with the grid references (A1 ect)

To add to the discussion however I second the notion that less is more in terms of orders. When everyone is moving into position is your time to give everyone the basic idea and your ideal opportunity to put down a marker or two. These probably won't change unless you are very confident with the map. In the heat of the moment short messages are your best bet. The occasional word of encouragement in those quiet moments goes a long way as well. Be positive and constructive! "N00bs go 2 theta, I'm pro trust me k?" will probably mean you will be commanding in name only for the rest of the match.

Two words of caution:

- Be careful rearranging your lances. You cannot tell who was premade in most instances. If you are going to adjust them ask quickly at launch if/who is together and keep them together. They might have voice and will probably do better together then if they are seperated. Communication in this game is very limited. Between people doing their own thing and missing orders, you do not need a grudging pair purposefully ignoring you as well.

- "The Commander's dead!". When you die, all your command benefits die with it. Arguably this frees you up to give better advice but technically the spot is now free. Keep commanding if you want, just remember you've traded those extra functions for spectating. This can work to your advantage both ways though. If the fight can go either way grabbing that empty seat can sometimes get people's head back in the game.

And finally, there are the hidden group of players out there just waiting for someone to take the role. They'd rather have a plan to follow. Give taking command a try and if you follow half the advice of this thread, you'd probably get a chorus of "rgr".

[Hayashi]

I used to command in closed beta and early open, but the rudeness (and cluelessness) of more recent players has put me off it. It's still more effective than no command, but it's too frustrating for me to want to do this for fun any more most of the time.

[Iron Savior]

There are times where players outright ignore me, which is fine, and times when a guy will actively antagonize me for it. At least I got a ****** idea goin here.

Last match I got TK'd over it. Well, initially he just legged me, but I'm not gonna let that go. I was in a 100kph-ish blackjack, so. I got his armor on torso to red and orange and splash everything else. Guy can't aim for ****, can't hti the same spot, etc. It was ********.

[Ninthshadow]

That's rediculous.

As in really, that is just plain silly. I get the distinct impression that's not all there was to it.

I admit I have been more reserved myself in taking command lately Hayashi. My current mechs (Lights/brawlers mostly) rarely leave much opportunity for it and It is partially laziness on my part. Still, it does not mean it is completely off the table. One of my main hangups is after taking command I then feel compelled to have a 'good' match. In my head suddenly my personal standards skyrocket and I've had more than a few matches of having an embarressing early death.

Power up, take command, ask the sole ECM player to stay with the group, catch an unlucky PPC volley right into the ammo and become first to die with under 100 damage. Stuff happens. I personally need to work on taking the role without worrying that I'll die of embarressment if I don't deal 500 damage and get all 8 kills or something.

1453R did touch on a good point though for anyone taking the seat. There will be times when a certain plan is a bad idea and more experienced players will know it, no matter how many times you type "everyone stand on the ridge!" on frozen city. What is almost garenteed however is half (if not more) of the team will already 'know the drill'. They won't need you to hold their hand and will probably find you condescending if you try. It is part of the reason I suggested being concise.

Often it is a matter of just relaying information not the sort of thing a grand strategist would be proud of. Partially the reason why I'm such an advocate of seeing commander/squad leaders more often. It is not, in fact, that big of a deal.

Edited by Ninthshadow, 24 May 2013 - 04:26 PM.

[Iron Savior]

Ninthshadow, on 24 May 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

That's rediculous.

As in really, that is just plain silly. I get the distinct impression that's not all there was to it.

I can't quite remember, but it was something along the lines of

Quote

I don't take orders from davion scum

Edited by Iron Savior, 31 May 2013 - 12:37 AM.

[Catnap]

Agreed with what's been said here. It's usually better to go with a plan rather than without. Still most times the players do have an idea of how they like to play. As such a commander's role isn't about inventing grand schemes, it's about noticing the obvious and letting the group know.
Many players lack confidence for strategic thinking. They may act dumber than they are if a commander doesn't validate their observations; it might make good sense to split the group between a base guard and a sweep group at the end of the game so you can chase the last lights without fear of cap. But if no one points it out to the group, you'll likely have everyone running after the lights, or trudging over the whole map in their atlases to get to the cap party, because without orders they'd just feel silly sitting still in the base.

So a good commander mostly just notices what really needs to be done, and enables the less confident players to do it.
He doesn't even need to COMMAND as such. Simply take decisive action, let the team know what you're doing, and some will follow, making the play more efficient.

A pushy commander isn't much use; nobody elected him, and if the players don't like the orders, they simply won't follow them.



Personally I mostly just relay any relevant observations and suggestions to the team, but I never take the actual command role.

[Koniving]

Iron Savior, on 22 May 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

I've noticed the amount of times a commander takes up the reigns is about 1/15. I've also noticed that when I take command and actively issue orders, the win rate is a steady 70% or so, as opposed to the general 55% or so I'm used to in pugs. At the very least, I consistently see a better team cohesion when an active commander is present, than when one is not. Players are more likely to stay together and cap when told so. They are also more likely to properly react to new or unseen threats and coordinate ECM and AMS coverage and TAG usage.

I tried giving commands as a commander.
I get "Blow it out your ***" as a cohesive team response.

Now I give them without taking commander's role, even though using the commander's role provides bonuses to give commands (that are obeyed) and pays the recipients even more! Sadly there seems to be a minimum requirement of obedience, say 3 or 4 mechs must 'perform' the task of moving to a destination. Defend / attack commands seem to get paid regardless, though, so long as something dies in the area.

Edited by Koniving, 31 May 2013 - 07:36 AM.

[Faolan65]

"He who shouts the loudest does make him a capable leader." -unknown

Just because someone "takes command" and uses the command page, doesn't make them a leader. I PUG and 4man half and half.
So when when PUGing, and I see someone drop some commands on the map, ya thats nice, I dont put much value in it.
Cuz as far as I'm concerned the "leader" dropping commands could very well be ignorantly leading us to our demise, all the while thinking he is gallantly being a hero.
However, if I see the other sheeple on my team following the commands of a unproven leader, I will take that into account and adjust my tactics accordingly.
Cuz at least at that point, the sheeple are herding around together, and I can use that to my advantage in my play-style. I have alot of fun and success with being the "Flanker" in my 82kph Jager.....

Oh and one more thought, if you're issuing commands on the map, you're not HOTAS, and are not destroying the enemy....

[Catnap]

A sensible commander doesn't spend 50% or even 10% of a game writing orders, Faolan. A good commander gives simple and short orders that are written out in just a few seconds that might be spent letting the mech cool down.

OFC there are the loud and overeager newbies who pointlessly repeat 'PUSH! PUSH! PUSH! PUSH HARDER!', like talking to someone about to give birth, but... You know those orders aren't probably worth following anyway.

[Ninthshadow]

Koniving, on 31 May 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

Now I give them without taking commander's role, even though using the commander's role provides bonuses to give commands (that are obeyed) and pays the recipients even more! Sadly there seems to be a minimum requirement of obedience, say 3 or 4 mechs must 'perform' the task of moving to a destination. Defend / attack commands seem to get paid regardless, though, so long as something dies in the area.

This bit blindsided me. Does this still work? If so, apparently I am not spending nearly enough attention at the end of game screens. It certainly does provide a reason for command, if very situational.

[Koniving]

Ninthshadow, on 02 June 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

This bit blindsided me. Does this still work? If so, apparently I am not spending nearly enough attention at the end of game screens. It certainly does provide a reason for command, if very situational.

First day I took command with it, Lordred who follows me around a lot didn't have a functioning hud at the time but at the end of the match I had 1 mil+ cbills and he had 3,000,000+ for following the orders which were movely 'go here, flank this way' orders followed by a "attack this position" order. For most of the match the other two in the lance just followed us because we were fast assault mechs.

I know for certain I got the mil. Not sure how Lordred got such an insane amount. We've been trying to replicate it but try to get pugs to follow you.

Edited by Koniving, 02 June 2013 - 01:08 PM.

[Ninthshadow]

Well, after several matches (once of which my squad kindly walked over three arrows in sync.) I can confirm at the very least the Lance Commander does not recieve C-bills at this stage of the game. Unless those arrows are hypersensitive now, it simply is not happening. I have not got around to testing it with a Command console for sake of argument, but I doubt that will change that.

I suppose we will have to see if it applies for the acutal full command function, but it seems 'C-bills for followed/following lance orders' is going to have to go into the "Things which we would like to see (re)added" column.

However, I like all the changes that came in the last patch in regards to UI for commanding.

Edited by Ninthshadow, 04 June 2013 - 02:20 PM.

[pjfontillas]

This is good advice. On occasion I take up command and come up with a plan while my D-DC is making its way to the front lines. Communication and respect (in both directions) is vital in making a plan work/adapt.

[Wildstreak]

Oddly, I have come to believe the frowned upon Medium Mechs could be used for this too, of the 4 weight classes Mediums are not the best at Scouting/Harrassing/Capping and usually will wait for the Assaults/Heavies to engage before fighting. So while waiting for that 'right moment' to act, a Medium pilot would have a lot of time on his hands to check the overall situation.

While you can give a few orders on the BattlGrid, I found it best for keeping track of where teammates are and locating enemies I hear my HUD bleep about but cannot see through the viewport.

Iron Savior, on 22 May 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

I believe the CC just lets you issue orders on the map.

Actually the CC gives you another module slot for now, nothing else.

Ninthshadow, on 04 June 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

I can confirm at the very least the Lance Commander does not recieve C-bills at this stage of the game.

They should give half the bonuses a Team Commander gets.

[Ninthshadow]

Merchant, on 07 June 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

Actually the CC gives you another module slot for now, nothing else.

Well, a quick look at the mechlab should confirm that. If so, I did not know that. We are all learning something in this thread.

Merchant, on 07 June 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

They should give half the bonuses a Team Commander gets.

Heh, well in a way I can already say that is true. Double of nothing is still nothing.

Unfortunately I have yet to play a game where I recieved a bonus when testing this. I would love to know for sure that it is here in the game now though. If anyone that could throw up a recent screenshot or something to put the question to bed I would really appreciate it. I have not been able to confirm it myself over at least half a dozen games recently. I can accept the possibility I am plain bad at commanding and I'm not getting the right conditions.

Some advice on how to make sure you're getting the hard cash or experience rewards would definitately be appreciated if that is the case. During my time commanding the lance/team (and intentionally trying to run directly over move markers when someone else took the reins ect) it is definately proving tricky.

The mediums and even some 'brawler' lights can definately take advantage of that quiet moment to make sure everyone is on the same page though. Anyone that has spent time waiting for the assaults to catch up or for the range gap to close can probably appreciate just how much time there is to devote to something else, just as Merchant said. Commanding can be that something.

Oh and I'm definately with you on that Pjfontillas. the Atlas D-DC is my mech of choice right now when I'm feeling like taking command as well.