27 replies to this topic

[Ph30nix]

i know i heard that long ago (before i started playing) small lasers and small pulse were a terror in the hands of certain mechs.

but what was so bad that they seem to have nerfed the small pulse to be completely worthless? There is zero benefit in taking a small pulse over a regular small or even a medium laser.

the only differnce between small pulse and regualar small laser is, the pulse gets slightly lower cooldown, higher heat, 2x the tonnage and the pulse duration... thats it.

In my head im picturing there was a QQ fest like we have now with poptarts. Or one of the devs just got rocked one to many times by a small pulse build....

but can someone give me better picture of what happened? and what were the small pulse lasers older stats back when it was somewhat useful. or was the small pulse never useful and im thinking of regular small lasers?

[Farpenoodle]

Ph30nix, on 12 May 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

i know i heard that long ago (before i started playing) small lasers and small pulse were a terror in the hands of certain mechs.

but what was so bad that they seem to have nerfed the small pulse to be completely worthless? There is zero benefit in taking a small pulse over a regular small or even a medium laser.

the only differnce between small pulse and regualar small laser is, the pulse gets slightly lower cooldown, higher heat, 2x the tonnage and the pulse duration... thats it.

In my head im picturing there was a QQ fest like we have now with poptarts. Or one of the devs just got rocked one to many times by a small pulse build....

but can someone give me better picture of what happened? and what were the small pulse lasers older stats back when it was somewhat useful. or was the small pulse never useful and im thinking of regular small lasers?

I don't think anything really changed. But prior to laser HSR pulse lasers were considered more useful due to actually being able to put more damage on a fast moving mech compared to normal lasers. That and people learned more about how to play the game I guess. Small lasers can still be useful in niche situations now, but SPL are not worth the tonnage compared to an ML. I don't think SPL were ever considered particularly useful.

[Ph30nix]

Farpenoodle, on 12 May 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

I don't think anything really changed. But prior to laser HSR pulse lasers were considered more useful due to actually being able to put more damage on a fast moving mech compared to normal lasers. That and people learned more about how to play the game I guess. Small lasers can still be useful in niche situations now, but SPL are not worth the tonnage compared to an ML. I don't think SPL were ever considered particularly useful.

for me pulses are barely more useful then their standard version, to me its more a situation of personal prefernce, or for medium pulses getting slightly more damage for only slittle more tonnage.

[Minsc]

The reason why Small pulse lasers used to be so good was the fact that they were bugged and generating significantly less heat than intended. If I remember right, it was something like 10 single heat sinks was enough to cool 2 or 3 at a time just fine for near continuous fire.

[aniviron]

What the others said. Also, OP, SPLAS do not have a faster recycle time, the only advantage they have is a shorter beam duration. You can still fire them more than SLAS, but only because the laser does not start to recycle until the beam is done.

Pulse lasers are not even close to worth their huge downsides right now.

[One Medic Army]

Laser heat used to be per second of beam, rather than per firing.
This meant that the 8heat largelas was actually 10 heat because it had a 1.25sec burn time at that point.
Small Pulses did 3 heat, but had a burn time of .5, which meant their actual heat was only 1.5

The bug has since been fixed.

[SinnerX]

I think SLs were only "OP" for a very brief period of closed beta when 1) there were no engine restrictions on mechs, 2) engine ratings past 250 continued giving free heatsinks, and 3) the Awesome hadn't been released yet. Basically people could take a Hunch 4P and load 9 SLs with the rest of their tonnage going to a huge engine, and have a fast moving mech with a 21 point, quick recharging, heat neutral alpha. But then the Awesome was released and people found out you could do the same thing with 7 MLs, and then people started discovering dual gauss K2s, and then finally PGI revamped the engine mechanics.

So, similar to the SPL, the SL itself was never nerfed, they just fixed other mechanics around it and it fell out of favor.

[627]

i think we lost the 9SL hunchie with the release of DHS. 9ML were too hot, that was all.

[General Taskeen]

SPL are crap. And so are all pulse lasers. Way better in other games.

[Skydrive]

Large Pulse and Med pulse lasers are still good, primarily if you have the space and tonnage for it (like 7 tons and 2 crit slots free for 1 LPL, to 14 tons free and 4 crit slots free for 2 LPL). I may use SPL's now and then, but generally only if I want to chain fire them and have a continuous stream, to being pared with small lasers since I want them all to be fired at the same range. These occassions are rare, but they do happen.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

The LPL is in a decent place now, though I would like to see its cycle time go down (faster fire rate). MPL as well, though it's a bit worse off than the LPL (the ML is soooo efficient it's hard to compete with it). The only times any more that I use a MPL over a ML are when I have limited hard points and critical space and can't figure out how else to spend a few spare tons (and don't have enough for a LL instead of a MPL).

The SPL is utterly useless. The ML is far better for the weight, and you can get two SL for every SPL provided you have enough hard points. It needs to become the MG of lasers, by which I mean it needs to fire almost continuously (super short cycle time). Then it might find a place.

As for the SL, I still use it on several of my builds, and I've found that the 7 SL Swayback is still super strong (only 7 because I use ML on the arms).

[Carrioncrows]

There was a lot of left over fear from the days of MW3 about how useful the SM laser is.

Though technically it is a decent weapon it didn't receive the same make over in range that all the other laser weapons did.

A SM laser and Pulse laser should have a 180m range and 360m max range.

They gimped it to 90m which regulates it to suicide range making it harder for any battlemech to use it and worse on lights as they have to get stupid close zipping around at 120+ kph which means that it's doubtful you'll have the beam hit the same location for the duration.

Lights are best at 200m+ where they are the most difficult targets, but can still concentrate fire on slower mechs.

[Roadbuster]

SPL don't have enough range for the weight and the damage.
ML outperform them in almost every aspect for the same weight.

SPL and MPL really need a lower cooldown (1,50s and 2,00s instead of 2,25s and 3,00s) to make them worthwhile.
Even a LPL only has 3,25s cooldown.

[MeiSooHaityu]

My main issue with pulse lasers in general is the marginal damage increase with the huge sacrifice to heat and especially range.

If you had a mech that was fast and really close range, I could see using MPLasers...maybe. SPLasers seem especially useless because I think they are 1 ton. For 1 ton, I could use a MLaser with higher range and good damage potential.

I just don't see a need for SPLasers unless the tonnage goes down to .5

[Sephlock]

They're poopy.

Occasionally I entertain fantasies of cramming pulse lasers onto a hunchback and fishing for headshots, but those are merely the fever dreams of a bored mind.

[Ph30nix]

small lasers i feel have a place i mean cant really complain about 0.5 tons for 3 damage and almost nil heat. well you can complain but its useful at times.

and Medium pulse has a place too you got tonnage to spare but no where else to put it might as well switch to medium pulse for the extra damage.

but small pulse... it brings NOTHING to the table over Small laser..... at least they didnt lower its range as is standard to the rest of the pulse lasers.... but i think they day they set its stats one of the dev's just couldnt beat that poor little guy anymore and granted him some mercy.

[Vapor Trail]

Unless massed, Small Lasers (of any type) are a bit of a waste. Too range limited.

And trying to mass them, you run out of hardpoints too quickly. Twelve small lasers on a fast light chassis... In TT that can be a holy terror. In MWO it can't even be done.

[Ryebear]

While I fully agree, I've yet to find a situation where they were more valuable over their normal counterparts. I did run a 6 SPL Jenner once, ended up with 6 kills and survived the round. But after I got those kills with some glorious flanking and much kill stealing I was left fighting a nearly full health Catapult which I had absolutely no chance against so turned and tried to base cap to victory, but they also had some light cleaning up some cap points and eventually I lost.

Bottom line, while it was a funny round, I've never gone 6/0 on a loss before. But when faced with a mech who was actually looking my direction, I had no chance. The same build with 6 medium lasers would have stood a chance.

[Victor Morson]

SPL are pretty.. well.. "Meh." They're not MG levels of bad but they're not as good as a medium in most cases either.

Small Lasers are pretty awesome though. They're really under appreciated right now, but I find that if you have the unused energy slots they're almost always worth jamming in in there. Hell, just 2 of them on my Cataphract has bailed me out of more than a few bad situations.

Vapor Trail, on 13 May 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

Unless massed, Small Lasers (of any type) are a bit of a waste. Too range limited.

And trying to mass them, you run out of hardpoints too quickly. Twelve small lasers on a fast light chassis... In TT that can be a holy terror. In MWO it can't even be done.

I disagree. Small Lasers make great "backup weapons" or "point defense." Again, it's only good on 'mechs that have some free energy slots and no other way to utilize them, but they are definitely worth their tonnage in that situation.

The reason I enjoy them so much on my 3D is that they provide just enough firepower to often score killing blows after my Gauss / PPCs have done their work, making them a huge part of my anti-light point defense. I'm not exaggerating when I say they are responsible for nearly half of my infighting kills and have inflicted more than enough damage to count for the 1 ton used by them. Their lower heat makes them more compatible and usable than Medium Lasers if you're using an ER PPC in the mix, too.

Definitely not a good primary weapon on most 'mechs by any means, but they're great bang for a half ton buck.

Edited by Victor Morson, 13 May 2013 - 12:22 PM.

[One Medic Army]

I will gladly downgrade my Jenner to 6small lasers if I can spend the freed up tonnage upgrading my engine past 300...