50 replies to this topic

[shameless]

add to it the Harmony Gold hasn't once tried to do anything other than robotech, and that Shadow Rising and the Untitled Robotech movie Tobey and WB were doing hasn't been heard from in over a year.....

It just sucks, because dear god, I'd love to have a nice Dub of Frontier...

[DireWolf307]

shameless, on 06 June 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

add to it the Harmony Gold hasn't once tried to do anything other than robotech, and that Shadow Rising and the Untitled Robotech movie Tobey and WB were doing hasn't been heard from in over a year.....

It just sucks, because dear god, I'd love to have a nice Dub of Frontier...

Part of the reason they haven't done anything other than "New Generation" stuff is because of the rulings of the Japanese courts. Since they don't legally own anything Macross, they can't make anything new with the "Macross Saga" designs.

But apparently that doesn't keep them from stopping everyone else from using them, even if the other party does legally own the designs.

Edited by DireWolf307, 06 June 2012 - 06:19 PM.

[Fetladral]

Harmony Gold never owned macross stuff (as far as I know) they do have robotech which is basically the first macross series and has all the same mecha in it. (whether robotech itself is "stolen" or not I don't know)

[skins]

The unseen are epic as a kid i started reading because of the old bt books..to me nothing is more epic the the BLACK WIDOW in her Warhammer...beast mode.To me if is just hard to play the games without them since i 2 played the table top game

[trycksh0t]

According to Catalyst (the current holder of the BattleTech license), the list of dis-allowed artwork can be found here:

My original source - http://www.mektek.ne...-r1283#comments

Thanks to Zynk for this link - http://bg.battletech...pic,9479.0.html

[Justin Wolf]

I came to Battletech through the novels. And being a po boy from the mid west my novels were second hand store gold. The Grey Death Legion with MAD's for every bad guy. And just so ya know i rooted for Vader and I rooted for any one driving a MAD, Evil Dukes included lol. I didnt get to the Clans till later when i couldnt find any more BT at the second hand shops. But i have to say i would take the MAD in just about any config they could magine on up for us so long as it has that evil hunched back with a cannon for a hump and arms bucking man made lightning. The Mad Cat is a nice comprimise but i have to wait for that one a bit at least and still the Timber Wolf just doesnt have the same ugly nasty of the MADs.

[Promptus]

The more Harmony Gold has meddled with Macross the more horrible they have made it. Carl Macek is dead and yet his undying corpse still has to urinate on the parade of people who've been waiting for any resemblance of a decent mech game... merely so the skeletal remnant of harmony Gold can lord over intellectual property that doesn't even belong to them.

As a caveat it's worth knowing that Macross was a far better TV series than Robotech ever was and the only thing changed was the dialog... not that ANY of it has anything to do with Battletech, of course... other than the fact that surviving family members of Carl Macek clearly don't want us to have any fun.

[Dexion]

Gah, again?! Shadow hawk, Valk. and Wolverine unseen again. That makes me sad .

[Karyudo ds]

People are still asking about these "unseen"? Seriously is Google down? The information out there and pretty old by now. Not to mention been rehashed here pretty often.

Though to the specific question all the names can be used, as FASA made them all up (kinda) It is a question of the art itself. If Battletech had Star Wars Storm Troopers but called them Redbuttons, there would be the sound of furious silent nerd-rage across the interweb, 5 seconds later they would be hearing from George.

DireWolf307, on 06 June 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

Part of the reason they haven't done anything other than "New Generation" stuff is because of the rulings of the Japanese courts. Since they don't legally own anything Macross, they can't make anything new with the "Macross Saga" designs.

But apparently that doesn't keep them from stopping everyone else from using them, even if the other party does legally own the designs.

I remember when the 1/60 VF-1's from Yamato came out someone wanted to sell them online and HG sent them a cease order. When the seller knowing full well of the court situation asked for clarification they never got a response. Which makes me suspect they're all talk but the reality is what exactly they bought, international rights? Licensing? Things expire so the question is when depending what they had/have but again I suspect it's nothing.

The really weird part is when the Macross series was officially remastered, HG provided the film for it to happen...

Fetladral, on 06 June 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

Harmony Gold never owned macross stuff (as far as I know) they do have robotech which is basically the first macross series and has all the same mecha in it. (whether robotech itself is "stolen" or not I don't know)

They bought Macross and because it was to short for an American series bought others and globed them together and called it Robotech. You now know different. In a sense Robotech was stolen, but not intentionally. No one thought anime would work here and the company that sold Macross didn't even own it.

Promptus, on 06 June 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

The more Harmony Gold has meddled with Macross the more horrible they have made it. Carl Macek is dead and yet his undying corpse still has to urinate on the parade of people who've been waiting for any resemblance of a decent mech game... merely so the skeletal remnant of harmony Gold can lord over intellectual property that doesn't even belong to them.

As a caveat it's worth knowing that Macross was a far better TV series than Robotech ever was and the only thing changed was the dialog... not that ANY of it has anything to do with Battletech, of course... other than the fact that surviving family members of Carl Macek clearly don't want us to have any fun.

Wow, didn't know he died. I hated him, his "creation" if you were to assume he created jack and possibly his family memeber if they hate us...otherwise no. Not that I'd be happy he's dead, I just hate what he did to Macross. Plus made it over and was good...liked Zero to though.

Ironically out of the Macross games I played they didn't compare to Robotech Battlecry...and that's not saying much I guess.

[Affius Shield]

If only Ho Money N Gold would come to the table and discuss this more realistically
Imagine a premium cash purchase only for the Unseen Mechs! Users win as they get to play their fav mechs although it will cost $$$ MWO wins with a percentage cut (like Apps on the app store) and Oh Money N gold get their cash, everyone wins!

But I suppose if the sole reason they are doing it is to protect their Robotech/Macross Brand imaging then we are stuffed.

Or have I missed something???

Surely someone can force arbitration???? please!!!!!

[shameless]

Ease off on Carl

I met him at several cons, and he was an okay guy. he really did love the fanbase of robotech, and explained exactly why Robotech was made the way it was.

1 word, Syndication. They had to hit the magic 65 episodes for broadcast.

How he did it?
1 Word, Protoculture. going from a precursor humanoid race into an incredible powersource it welded the three series together. not seamlessly mind, but amazingly well, enough that Robotech was a major hit in it's original broadcast.

I get mad thinking about the Unseen and what HG has cost us with them, time and time again, they'll take my original Crusader and Battlemaster minis from my cold dead hands. But let's not speak ill of the dead, please.

[Orion Pirate]

trycksh0t, on 06 June 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

According to Catalyst (the current holder of the BattleTech license), the list of dis-allowed artwork can be found here:

My original source - http://www.mektek.ne...-r1283#comments

Thanks to Zynk for this link - http://bg.battletech...pic,9479.0.html

THIS should be a sticky...

[Orion Pirate]

For the Record, many of the Unseen have nothing to do with Macross, yet they are still unseen. Many come from the Dougram Anime... And I believe there are a couple more animes at least...

So Harmony Gold is not the root problem in all this. Just the most publicized.

It is a modern world, and licensing costs money. I have no ill will towards CGL for making the reseen unseen again. It makes good business sense to do it, and why not stand on your own designs, after all, the BT franchise is over 25 years old now, should not be necessary to rely on other people's designs to maintain your image.

P.S. I don't want to sound like a bad guy here, I grew on Battledroids, the Warhammer Shadow Hawk and the Marauder just like many of you. But I understand where BT is today, so I don't hold it against them, and just wanted to share a different perspective.

Edited by Orion Pirate, 06 June 2012 - 06:58 PM.

[dboy]

Well fark!, that ****** me off...

Quote

Type Private company Industry Television programs Founded Los Angeles, California (1983) Headquarters Los Angeles, California, USA Key people Frank Agrama, Chairman & CEO
Alan Letz, Executive VP
Melissa Wohl, Vice president
Tommy Yune, Creative Director Products Motion pictures, Television programs, Miniseries, Animation, Real estate Revenue Unknown Net income Unknown Employees Unknown Website harmonygold.com

Real estate? Your f'in kidding me!

Harmonygold, please let Macross go!, you do not own Macross, you did not create Macross, you do not have the right to tell others if they have the permission from the creators that they cannot use it. You took three anime series, edited and rescripted them to make Robotech so it is now longer Macross or the of two. Even tho the US court sided with you please do the right thing, don't be a dick!

[Kanatta Jing]

Harmony Gold doesn't need the actual rights to the products and PGI doesn't have to be in the wrong for Harmony Gold to hit PGI with a lawsuit right when it is the most financially vulnerable.

Which is right now. They haven't made back any money they've put into the game.

HG could totally blow PGI out of the water if they so much as look twice at an Unseen Model.

[Vashts1985]

Kanatta Jing, on 06 June 2012 - 07:03 PM, said:

Harmony Gold doesn't need the actual rights to the products and PGI doesn't have to be in the wrong for Harmony Gold to hit PGI with a lawsuit right when it is the most financially vulnerable.

Which is right now. They haven't made back any money they've put into the game.

HG could totally blow PGI out of the water if they so much as look twice at an Unseen Model.

unless they work out a licensing deal beforehand

[Opus]

Funny thing, Fasa has rights to the names of the unseen, but the images are banned to distribution... there are over a thousand posts (plus) in between the Battletech sites, asking for somebody (FD perhaps) to just make new images, that follow the stats per TT descriptions...

I have seen several images of a Warhammer, that really make me freak

Edited by Opus, 06 June 2012 - 07:15 PM.

[KageRyuu]

Karyudo ds, on 06 June 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

People are still asking about these "unseen"? Seriously is Google down? The information out there and pretty old by now. Not to mention been rehashed here pretty often.

Though to the specific question all the names can be used, as FASA made them all up (kinda) It is a question of the art itself. If Battletech had Star Wars Storm Troopers but called them Redbuttons, there would be the sound of furious silent nerd-rage across the interweb, 5 seconds later they would be hearing from George.



I remember when the 1/60 VF-1's from Yamato came out someone wanted to sell them online and HG sent them a cease order. When the seller knowing full well of the court situation asked for clarification they never got a response. Which makes me suspect they're all talk but the reality is what exactly they bought, international rights? Licensing? Things expire so the question is when depending what they had/have but again I suspect it's nothing.

The really weird part is when the Macross series was officially remastered, HG provided the film for it to happen...




They bought Macross and because it was to short for an American series bought others and globed them together and called it Robotech. You now know different. In a sense Robotech was stolen, but not intentionally. No one thought anime would work here and the company that sold Macross didn't even own it.



Wow, didn't know he died. I hated him, his "creation" if you were to assume he created jack and possibly his family memeber if they hate us...otherwise no. Not that I'd be happy he's dead, I just hate what he did to Macross. Plus made it over and was good...liked Zero to though.

Ironically out of the Macross games I played they didn't compare to Robotech Battlecry...and that's not saying much I guess.

Love your signature man.

[DireWolf307]

Karyudo ds, on 06 June 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

I remember when the 1/60 VF-1's from Yamato came out someone wanted to sell them online and HG sent them a cease order. When the seller knowing full well of the court situation asked for clarification they never got a response. Which makes me suspect they're all talk but the reality is what exactly they bought, international rights? Licensing? Things expire so the question is when depending what they had/have but again I suspect it's nothing.

The really weird part is when the Macross series was officially remastered, HG provided the film for it to happen...

The 1/60 VF-1s (made by Yamato, but attempted to import under the Sunwards name) were round two in the battle. The first was the 1/72 Macross Plus valks Yamato made back in 2001-ish.

My understanding is that HG merely bought the animation cells and the distributing rights for such, plus the name "Macross". But they bought it from Tatsutoko, which was merely one of the animation companies involved. That's where the issue gets sticky, HG never bought any "designs" from Tatsutoko, only the name and the animation (which Tatsutoko didn't have any rights to sell). FASA bought the actual intellectual property of the actual designs from Big West/Studio Nue (the actual owners/creators of Macross).

The biggest thing HG has to go on (and the only thing they've been able to use to stop importation of things like the toys and movies that have nothing to do with anything HG did) is the fact that they own the name "Macross" and have it licenced in technically every part of the world that isn't Japan. That's the only way they've been able to stop Macross.

How they can get away with stopping Battletech, I will never understand. The only thing I can think is like I said, technically they used the designs before Battletech did, whether they legally owned them or not. I believe that's the only thing the US courts care about.

Quote

Wow, didn't know he died. I hated him, his "creation" if you were to assume he created jack and possibly his family memeber if they hate us...otherwise no. Not that I'd be happy he's dead, I just hate what he did to Macross. Plus made it over and was good...liked Zero to though.

Ironically out of the Macross games I played they didn't compare to Robotech Battlecry...and that's not saying much I guess.

Battlecry was fun, but that's about the only good thing they've put out in the past 15 years.

Rowboattech fans are a hilarious sort. They will swear up and down until they're blue in the face that Macek created Robotech and that Macross was inspired by Robotech, and stole the artwork and film from Robotech. I have never seen a more naieve and brainwashed group of fans in my life.

[Imperius]

Let the Unseen thing die already... I personally don't like the designs of them anyway.