183 replies to this topic

[Torarild]

I wont be too adamant after only one day, but this seems like a very very powerful module. Used it in all fights yesterday and it is by far the most useful module I have ever tried.

The range seems very long (I have improved version) and wow.. on voice chat with my 4-man group it is a game changer.

I think this module is a good idea, and the implementation with the radar pings on the minimap is great, I realy feel this brings something new to the game. However, a smaller range might have to be considered, or making it harder to detect light mechs. This thing gives too much battlefield info compared to its cost, and maybe more than any one thing should.

Edited by Torarild, 21 May 2013 - 10:32 PM.

[Meirleach]

I think 400meters upgraded should be the MAX range. My idea with it, is that assault mechs can be heard from longer distances. Just a quick example of what I'm thinking about. Assault mechs(400m heavy and loud) Heavy mechs(300m) Medium mechs(200m) and Light mechs (100m)

[Klaa]

Nah the seismic sensor is fine as is. For one thing it doesn't relay targeting info, just shows something is moving around.

Now I haven't been able to tell if it picks up mechs that are standing still.

In fact some kind of deployable pounder decoy would make for a nice counter.

[PyckenZot]

Madcownivean, on 21 May 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

C)
What HRR Insanity wrote above: It only works when you stand still. Your own footsteps drives the sensor crazy. Makes sense. I like it.
It's like putting your ear on the ground to track the enemy movement (reminds me of Legolas in LOTR III, when they were chasing the Uruk-hai squad.)

I like this too. That and the fact that friendlies should light up as well (no more than logical limitations of such a device) and maybe a range reduction (I love flankin and would like to be able to continue doing so,...).

[TheMagician]

I agree with others that it is way too powerful. Any time you can see people 'through walls' it takes a way a lot of the tactical possibilities. A possible change is to only give a general indicator of the direction that an enemy mech is sensed. Not specific location, and not specific numbers.

Edited by TheMagician, 22 May 2013 - 03:28 AM.

[Bloody Moon]

I think most of us agree that this module is far more powerful than it should be, but making it work only when the user is stationary would neuter the module altogether.

How about using it to add some depth to the fighting instead?

The range stays between 300-400m on the improved version, but it only works on mechs that generate small amount of "static" with their own steps AND can only pick up signals moving fast enough to generate a strong signal.

For example:

An Atlas with it's 100 tons can move at the maximum of 20KM/H if he wants to use Seismic Sensors, at the same time that Atlas remains obscured from others using the same module if he does not exceed 20KM/H.

The signal strength would be directly related to the tonnage of the mech using it. So a Highlander stays hidden at 30KM/H, a Catapult at 55KM/H, a Raven at 85KM/H and the future Flea at 100KM/H.

So players would be encouraged to adjust their movement speed sometimes instead of just pushing forward as hard as they can.

By the way the Seismic Sensor shouldn't work mid-air and after landing from a jump 'cos of the shockwave the mech creates while it hits the ground, it should probably be disabled for 1 second.

Edited by Bloody Moon, 22 May 2013 - 06:04 AM.

[OpCentar]

7 500 GXP is too much for the first level. It should be 5 000 for lvl1 and another 10 000 GXP for level 2.

Detection range could be a bit lower but no less that 300m for lvl2.


DO NOT over nerf it! go down 50m per patch and see how it works.

[BrokenNachtmahr]

I equiped it and immediately felt like I was cheating by using it. I agree that 400 is too great a range. Cut it back to 300 and see how it feels. I was also thinking that range should be reduced if the user is moving. Requiring you to slow down or stop for full effect.

Edited by BrokenNachtmahr, 22 May 2013 - 06:55 AM.

[Mr Andersson]

The range being dependant of the enemy mech sounds like a good fix. My suggestion is that range = 200 + 2 * tonnage.

[Hayashi]

I have the basic version, because I had the GXP and 360 Target is plain useless for a light pilot.

... honestly? It's overpowered even at 200 metres. I'm currently completely unflankable... and seeing how the dots move is giving me the ability to backshot multiple mechs in rapid succession, and evading their pursuit while cooling off.

At 400 metres you'd need something as broken as LRMs are in their current state to have any chance of hitting me at all.

The Target Info module it replaced on my loadout wasn't half as effective as this.

It might be good to limit the detection to one mech maximum, or maybe to update the dots less frequently. At the moment it basically invalidates information warfare in favour of grinding.

[deforce]

This is the most OP thing ever. It pretty much screws over any brawler trying to engage peiod, especially the slower heavy mechs. Knowing someone is flanking when they are 400m out is sooo dumb.

Not to mention i instantly know when someone goes cave on frozen city at forest colony as soon as they enter it and have 8 mechs waiting at the exit.

Ever heard of map hack on star craft. this is basically that.

[Amberite]

Curious as to how this module is supposed to operate.

Even in a 25 ton mech you couldn't possibly register any useful information via this whilst the mech is moving (too much clutter from you own mech noise/footfalls) and whilst using any kind of kinetic load (SRMs/LRMs/AC/MG/Gauss) you'd almost certainly lose any clarity from the sensor.

As people seem to be inclined marginally towards the fact this module is a tad OP, how about disabling it while your mech is in action?

Any movement (except torso/arm) and any weapons discharge would negate the sensor temporarily.

As it stands, this module looks to be heavily discouraging to any tactical movement.

[_Speirs]

Overpowered. Should have 50m/100m range OR "staystill" limitation.
Yesterdat we "spoted" spider running 300m from us in canyon 50 m below. He had ECM and could succesfuly flank us heading our base, but... PING, and four-assaults ******** was made on him.

[Garlic]

Dear Devs,

this module is, as it was already mentioned, killer for tactical movements like sneak attacks and is overpowered in range (if you really think this module interesting and needed).

[Modo44]

This is basically a short(ish) range radar. Waaay too strong in a system where vision is supposed to be so important.

[Hammer Hands]

arghmace, on 21 May 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

...

EDIT: By the way, why doesn't seismic sensor spot friendly mechs as well?

I have wondered this also, plus wondered how something that is supposed to register ground vibrations is capable of registering ANYTHING when your own 100 ton behemoth is sending shock waves through the ground.

[Mild Monkey]

Garlic, on 23 May 2013 - 01:30 AM, said:

Dear Devs,

this module is, as it was already mentioned, killer for tactical movements like sneak attacks and is overpowered in range (if you really think this module interesting and needed).

I think this module is interesting and needed to counter the most blatant and careless kinds of rushing attacks. However, it is overpowered. The range should go down to 100 meters. This is core fire distance for most brawler weapons yet gives the attacked party ample time to react. As it is now, it gives a very clear tactical picture. you know exactly where the enemy is. Just reduce its resolution or make it only work when the attacked party is immobile. own stomps should obscure enemy stomps . Advanced module can gather info at a distance of 200 meters.

[Jacob Dieffenbach]

I would like to point out that in the tabletop rules, seismic sensors cannot be used at the same time as any other sensors--including radar, thermal, or BAP. For that matter, this same rule applies to BAP, thermal, and radar as well--though since BAP cannot penetrate buildings like it does in tabletop, that's fine by me. Anyway, my point is, maybe seismic should have more stringent requirements of what you may combine it with? If you have seismic mode on, you don't have radar on, for instance.

The other comment I have is that if the 'Mech with the sensor is moving, the ping of each detected 'Mech should be reduced (so that lights are invisible, mediums appear light, and so on).

Also, weapon impacts on the ground should show up as pings. This would allow for some interesting tactics, where someone getting pursued through a city perhaps peppers some buildings with AC fire to distract the enemy seismics. It would also mean using seismics in an active battleground would only generally tell you where enemies were (they are in the center of a large cluster of pings) not EXACTLY where they are.

Lastly, I totally agree that it should show ally footprints as well. It just doesn't make sense otherwise, and in any case reduces the power of this extremely potent (to the point of being necessary) sensor system.

[Jakob Knight]

I'm struck by how similar the points raised in this thread mirror what was given as feedback for ECM when it was introduced. To date, the Devs haven't done a single tweek to ECM, so I wouldn't expect them to change Seismic either without setting a valid argument for hypocracy. Likely, they will add in things like decoys and/or allow Streak SRMs to temporarily blind Siesmic when they hit, though to be honest at least Seismic has a very easy counter to it, unlike ECM, so the degree it needs a counter will be different.

Ultimately, it seems like they are setting up a situation where scout mechs must remain out of close/medium combat ranges to do their jobs (the BAP abilities vrs ECM combined with Seismic sensors) rather than rush into point-blank attack ranges. Might be good as encouragement for proper roles, but I don't know if alot of Light pilots will be happy doing the jobs a Light mech is made to do. They are leaving open the option for the Light pilot to disregard their role and engage as a brawler, but putting obstacles in that will make that a very costly risk. Is this good for the game as a whole? I don't know.

Is the range on Seismic too great? I don't know, since the only thing that would make this worth the 17500 GXP, 6mil Cbill pricetag is if it actually had a benefit on the battlefield. Since the whole point is to see enemy units before they get close enough to make detection pointless (dual AC/20 range+the range needed to avoid), it needs to be far enough away to matter, yet not so far as to allow long-range avoidance of combat. At the same time, a Scout unit using this needs the extra range to be able to do it's job, so having it only detect something inside 250 m with most maps having 300m visibility angles would probably make this unusable as Scout equipment. The range seems about right for this, though I'll reserve judgment till I've got some more battlefield experience to tell.

As for the most powerful item in the game, I think ECM still edges it out in having infinite range abilities (cloaking everything under its protection from being targetted at 750meter and beyond) and not requiring a Module slot (which mechs have far fewer of than crit and tonnage), and among the Module items, the UAV is arguably more powerful as it allows targetting of the detected enemy mech for LRMs (unlike Seismic that only gives indication, not targeting, and can't detect unmoving units).

We'll see how this plays out, but I expect it will end up being like ECM.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 23 May 2013 - 05:48 AM.

[Buso Senshi Zelazny]

I think the effective range of the module should be affected by the speed of the mech using it. If you are standing still, you get the full range (400m/250m/whatever it is if they change it). You start moving slowly, maybe 15-20% of your top speed, and the detection range drops to 2/3 of its maximum. You go a bit faster, say 30-40% of your top speed, and the detection range drops to 1/3 of its maximum. You start going over about 60% of your top speed, and it becomes basically useless.

Maybe change the numbers a bit, and but a hard floor on the detection range (50-90m) so that it is still useful for the slow guys, but something like this should keep it useful for everyone, but require a bit of skill to use fully and not be OP.