183 replies to this topic

[Solarii]

great module! no more need for tactics, flanking or scouting. relax and enjoy lazy game.

[Ningyo]

OK to be clear I do not have it yet, but have seen it in use while spectating and OMG so absurdly overpowered.

So now I am forced to decide do I go for my third atlas to reach master and gain

Faster speed
Faster turning
Better cooling
and all those other bonuses

Or get the seismic first

personally I think speed tweak and cooling bonuses outweigh it by a bit, so will probably go that route first, but omg its a close second.



This needs fixed to a non game breaking level. Suggestions (mostly similar to others in thread) and not all of these, but any alone or a combination of some might balance it.

All range numbers here are based on its lvl 2 upgrade

Reduce detection range based on any mech weight (Range = 400 / (100/ weight of enemy mech)
or range = 100 vs light, 200 vs med, 300 vs heavy, 400 vs assault

Range is decreased as a % based on your speed (slower you go longer range you can detect)

Range is decrease as a % based on enemy speed (sloer they go shorter range you can detect)

Frequency of reporting reduced based on your speed
or only gives information while you are stopped (or under certain speed)

Frequency of reporting reduced (every 3 - 5 seconds)

Make AC 10/20, gauss, missile, and artillery/airstrike impacts on ground cause blips


I cannot say for sure where amongst these its proper balance will be found, but right now it is way too good.

[Mack1]

What's next a Module that auto pilots your Mech and shoots the enemy Mech? I mean why even let us aim as it's pretty clear that PGI want to take all skill away from the pilot and have everyone exactly the same.

MWO is really going down hill fast, whoever is responsible for all these latest changes needs to take a vacation, maybe a 5 year trip around the world.

Edited by Mack1, 24 May 2013 - 01:22 PM.

[Shakespeare]

Ok, so here's my thinking, after some more play.

Modules need to stop behaving as electronic equipment. It's just not costly enough to a build. I think the seismic sensor would be a great piece of optional, in-criticals equipment, like BAP, ECM, Artemis, AMS. This would force players to think wisely about what they bring to the party, as one simply couldn't load up on every electronics package without impacting their lethality. Right now, all it costs is a module slot, and time.

Yeah, it's a game-changer right now. So was ECM, and BAP is becoming one as well. If we want people's sensor packages to have special abilities, make it costly, and destroyable, just like all the other electronic equipment. A boost to sensor efficiency (targeting speed, range) in a module slot is WAY different from having a new sensor with completely different, and often superior, ability. This can't be 'free' to a chassis...if you force people to choose between BAP, ECM, Artemis, AMS, then the space of a mech and the choices a mechwarrior has to make for their chassis will keep it from being required equipment.

Not kidding. Seismic cannot be in a module, it's too easy, and costs nothing to a mech's combat ability. But as an equippable like ECM or BAP, it will become a choice between many electronics, or more combat efficiency. That's the whole point of EW as a role, right? Players should have to choose whether to lean towards advanced electronics, or advanced combat ability. Make it equippable. Give us enough options with chassis mounted equipment that we can't all mount them simultaneously, and you'll start to see some interesting specializations (some unit members taking EW specific mechs, others better equipped for combat.) We'll see more variation if seismic isn't so easy to throw on every mech ever. And while you're at it, merge it with 360 targeting, and just call it an advanced radar/sensor package.

[Seddrik]

Exactly what he said...

MavRCK, on 24 May 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

I was playing with the seismic sensor some more and I realized something:

I had stopped listening to the environmental sounds for footsteps, shots, etc... and I had stopped looking left and right every 3-5 seconds to watch my sides and the different paths around me...

In just a day, seismic sensor removed a huge part of what made a good pilot great: situational awareness.

Equips all the current modules. Turns on auto pilot. Goes to sleep. Wins multiple rounds.

Edited by Seddrik, 24 May 2013 - 02:43 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

The Seismic Sensor is one of those "Win" pieces of equipment, just like how ECM was before there were any counters, or how the Gauss Rifle was in Closed Beta before DHS, Large Energy Weapon Buffs, or Gauss Rifle Detonations. The Seismic Sensor is a Module that should go on every single Mech that everybody owns, and never come off, because it is Game Winning material.

The Seismic Sensor module has removed all my fear of being snuck-up on or running into a pack of foes around a corner, and so this makes this game less emotionally engaging / more mundane as a consequence.

It provides an awesome battlefield advantage, an advantage that everybody has access to, but still removes most of the fear from this game. The only fear left is coming across a High-Alpha Sniper from 600 meters away.

Suggested Fix - Reduce the range to 150/250m or something shorter like that, and reduce refresh-rate to once per second or 2.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 24 May 2013 - 03:49 PM.

[Unbound Inferno]

Looks cool, can't wait to afford it all - but it seems... too big.

Add a tick delay for updates and reduce the range and it could be just fine.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

It's too good. I've been using it nonstop and there is no reason not to use it. Nerf the range by half IMO, or create modules that hide you from the seismic sensor

[WhupAzz]

Don't listen to the nerf crowd just make a counter module and limit each mech to either the Sensor or the Counter.

[Seddrik]

Just put in autopilot so we dont have to do anything anymore. Thatll be loads fo fun too.

[skullman86]

It's an amazing module, but it has no downsides. I would recommend giving modules actual tonnage values because even if they are end game items, giving them only upsides makes it harder to balance the game. Tonnage values mean individuals will have to make a sacrifice(s) somewhere else in their loadout, and that could promote a little more variance in builds.

I would suggest 0.5-1.5 tons per module depending on the module's usefulness, and I would definitely put the seismic sensor at 1.5 tons (maybe even 2 tons for the advanced version) because it's effing godly.

[Noesis]

Combining some suggestions from above, how about lowering the basic module ranges but if BAP is equipped allowing for some bonus for the additional detection tool.

Ranges could even be lower than current even with BAP.

e.g. Basic range: 100m, 200m with advanced skill. Then add 50% to the range if BAP is equipped?

[MavRCK]

Pilots should listen for the mech steps, look for the smoke trails and pay attention to the environment.

:/

[Vassago Rain]

skullman86, on 24 May 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

It's an amazing module, but it has no downsides. I would recommend giving modules actual tonnage values because even if they are end game items, giving them only upsides makes it harder to balance the game. Tonnage values mean individuals will have to make a sacrifice(s) somewhere else in their loadout, and that could promote a little more variance in builds.

I would suggest 0.5-1.5 tons per module depending on the module's usefulness, and I would definitely put the seismic sensor at 1.5 tons (maybe even 2 tons for the advanced version) because it's effing godly.

Modules don't have a downside. Why would they? They're straight upgrades.

But wallhack is too uber.

[The Anger]

I have yet to try this module myself, but of the little I have seen in-game and in reading people's anecdotes with it... Simply OP in its present state.

Range is not the issue. Accuracy is.

Any frequency requirements are moot - it is a seismic sensor that detects footsteps. If you feel the need to give a time limit of sorts, give it an active duration with a cooldown. When active, it detects in full (whatever that should be) and otherwise you have to wait to recharge it or something. Personally I don't find this necessary if the accuracy / display of the sensor is re-done. But what to change?

How about any of these:

• strenght of blip (ie, size and intensity) is proportional to the impact strength / distance^2.
  
• weapon impacts baring energy weapons (perhaps include ppc's too) are detected.
  
• friendly mechs are detected (I cannot see a reason not to with such an omniscient sensor).
  
• impact strength would amount to mech speed * tonnage (impact force for weapons, damage amount will do).
  
• delay on readings based on distance, they're waves in the ground after all.
  
• make 'blips' have a decay and accumulate seismic activity - this way LRM's (for example) would amass one medium sized blip but for a longer duration, and a group of mechs would be one big blip concealing their location.

As it is and has been stated many times already, it is far too effective in its present combination of range, accuracy, penetration, fitting requirements and the few tactical countermeasures available.

my 2c.

[Solarii]

here's an advice for you PGI: make this sensor work only on stationary mechs, after all how can such precise equipment be active on RUNNNIG mechs

Edited by Solarii, 25 May 2013 - 03:33 AM.

[Joker Two]

I haven't got it myself yet, but I've played against it, spectated players with it, and members of the unit have used it in games I am in. Far too powerful, you can't sneak up on anyone anymore, regardless of how careless they are or how good you are. Either is should have vastly reduced range and accuracy, or it should only function when the user is standing still or moving a certain percentage of their speed (however, this option would most benefit the people who most abuse its powers, the LRM and PPC carriers who sit far back and trade shots).

[FuzzyLog1c]

Seismic sensors can't tell friend or foe.

A single sensor cannot triangulate the location of an object.

This is a wallhack that should be deleted or nerfed into oblivion.

Even if you want to introduce "magic" into the game like this, you should consider that this sensor negates a very important role of light and medium mechs: assassinating LRM and PPC campers.

Edited by FuzzyLog1c, 25 May 2013 - 10:16 AM.

[StealthAssassin]

FuzzyLog1c, on 25 May 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

Seismic sensors can't tell friend or foe.

A single sensor cannot triangulate the location of an object.

This is a wallhack that should be deleted or nerfed into oblivion.

Even if you want to introduce "magic" into the game like this, you should consider that this sensor negates a very important role of light and medium mechs: assassinating LRM and PPC campers.

This is a good point, maybe require 2 mech's with seismic sensor, and having to both be in 400m range of the target to triangulate it's position... otherwise, a single mech should only receive a directional signal.

[Shakespeare]

Here's the pithy version, just to reiterate:

Would ECM have been ok in a module slot?

Of course not.

Keep the advanced electronic equipment weighted, critical-dependent, and destroyable. Then maybe the multitude of options for electronic warfare will allow for variation, instead of necessitating a set of no-downside modules.