153 replies to this topic

[Belorion]

So I broke out an A1 for the first time since mid closed beta. I have been running mostly the following configurations on other mechs. 1. Two to three ML plus two to four SRMs; 2. Four LLs; 3. Dual AC-20s; 4. One or two PPC's with either Gauss, AC-20 or dual AC-2s.

I have played the 6 pack A1 before, but never really the streakcat configuration. In honor of the upcoming BAP/ECM changes I thought I would give it a go and see what I could do with it. While doing ok, ecm still shuts down the streakcat completely. I also tried out an LRM only configuration. I have never been fond of SSRM or LRM only configurations from the beginning, so I soon changed my load out to 4x SSRMs and 2x SRM6s.

With that load out I have been doing very well.... but no better than I would have with my dual AC-20, or 2PPC + Ballistic, or even my 2ML + 3SRM CN9-A...

This made me think about what "skill" is involved with the various load outs. Having run LRM's in mid closed beta before the first nerf, I have always disagreed that LRMs are a no skill weapon. Also having run SSRMs off and on before the introduction of ECM I never really thought of SSRMs as a no skill weapon either but never really thought about why.

Both lrm's and ssrm's having to lock on means having to expose yourself for much longer to the enemy and in the case of ssrms in the brawling context this makes it very hard to shoot and turn like you would with ballistics or ppc's. This shifts the skill required from aiming to piloting. The challenge being to damage the enemy with out exposing yourself to return fire. Now if you look at the dual AC-20 Jager for example that criteria flips. Piloting gets much easier and damaging the other mech without exposing yourself for long periods become much easier. In this regard the instant fire weapons require less skill than the lock on weapons. All you have to do is get the cross hairs on the target for a fraction of a second to land your shot.

Instant fire weapons

Easy to pilot, easy to cover damage area's harder to aim.

Lockon weapons

Hard to pilot, hard to cover damage easy to aim specifically but harder to maintain lock.

Dot weapons

Medium to pilot, medium to cover damage, hardest to aim and do full damage, easiest to do partial damage.


TL;DR: People that dislike SSRMs and LRMs are more likely to be good at aiming, but perhaps less good at piloting.

Edited by Belorion, 19 May 2013 - 08:03 AM.

[MechWarrior849305]

A1? Gauss? AC20? LLs???

[Keifomofutu]

SSRM's will be much closer to balanced when they stop doing their damage almost exclusively to the CT. But you are right they do require you to expose yourself to your target for extended periods of time.

[Hotthedd]

I have never met an LRM boat pilot that was a good pilot. Hide in the rear, let your buddies target for you, spam LRMs, rinse, repeat. I am sure some exist, just as I am sure extraterrestrial life exists, I have just never met either.

[Carrioncrows]

It doesn't matter how much or how little SSRM's do, the fact that you can't dodge them, spread their damage and they always hit *Unless the user is just holding his finger down on the trigger blindly firing* they will always remain a bad weapon.

They need to retool it.

Add missile agility and bring SRM's up as lock on weapons.

[Belorion]

DuoAngel, on 19 May 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

A1? Gauss? AC20? LLs???

on other mechs...

[Lumpypants]

SSRMs are easy mode against lights and fast mediums. I've spectated time and again players who were valedictorians of the Imperial Stormtrooper School of Marksmanship mow down lights. And not with the lasers or ballistics. Jenners would die of old age first from these guys. It was perfect shot after perfect shot from streaks.

[General Taskeen]

Not sure what you are talking about OP, I've exploited SSRM's easy mode in Light vs. Light since Closed Beta. They absolutely need to be re-tooled to be skill-based. They need to tone down missile agility with minimum turn time in flight and maximum turn angle reached (90 Degrees) like other Mech Titles that balanced them better (I.E., MW:LL) while still assuring that they "home-in," but dependent on firing angles.

The great thing about MW:LL too is that JJ's can be used to dodge missiles, something that is absent in MWO and would make the Spider's much more forgiving since they do not have the luxury of using missiles. In close combat, they can NOT be dodged period and they will ALWAYS hit.

Edited by General Taskeen, 19 May 2013 - 08:30 AM.

[Traigus]

Lumpypants, on 19 May 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

SSRMs are easy mode against lights and fast mediums. I've spectated time and again players who were valedictorians of the Imperial Stormtrooper School of Marksmanship mow down lights. And not with the lasers or ballistics. Jenners would die of old age first from these guys. It was perfect shot after perfect shot from streaks.

Hello,

Some of us certified Stormtroopers marksman degree holders did hit several planets with our Deathstar. We want an apology!

Sincerely,

TK-421

P.S. how may credits are SSRMs and can we mount them on Speederbikes?

[Fate 6]

+1 to OP for logic statement regarding lock-on mechanic.

I still think there is work to be done in this regard, mostly with streaks, but there is definitely no lack of skill in these weapons. It's hard to get a lock with streaks when you're going 117 kph with 15fps against a mech going 140kph.

[Belorion]

Hotthedd, on 19 May 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

I have never met an LRM boat pilot that was a good pilot. Hide in the rear, let your buddies target for you, spam LRMs, rinse, repeat. I am sure some exist, just as I am sure extraterrestrial life exists, I have just never met either.

Again I will have to disagree with you there. If that is all they are doing they are going to do little damage, get killed quickly, or otherwise be a burden on their team. A good lrm pilot can help change the tide of the battle, a bad one not so much.

Lumpypants, on 19 May 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

SSRMs are easy mode against lights and fast mediums. I've spectated time and again players who were valedictorians of the Imperial Stormtrooper School of Marksmanship mow down lights. And not with the lasers or ballistics. Jenners would die of old age first from these guys. It was perfect shot after perfect shot from streaks.

I have taken out lights in my AC-20 Jager and Dual PPC + Ballistic Atlases much faster than I can with streaks. With the streaks I have to maintain lock, pursue and do so over a much longer time. With the others I can leg shot once, then either hit the other leg, cockpit shot or otherwise take them down fast.

ETA: Also it is possible to spread the damage of SSRMs. If you go into the testing grounds you can move around the dummy mechs and see that the missiles don't always hit even anywhere near the CT. This also depends on the mech. With a commando the head is part of the CT, so the CT can be hit from any direction, you can LRM head shot a commando from behind and take out their CT.

Edited by Belorion, 19 May 2013 - 08:51 AM.

[Lumpypants]

You can kill them faster with 40+ damage alphas? Well, duh. Hit location on the side works only when they are standing still relative to you. When they are moving tangentially to you, the missiles turn and hit... the CT. LRMs can be dodged in a light in you can get inside of their turning radius. It's a lot harder to hit with lasers than missiles. You don't even have to have the crosshairs sitting over the mech to obtain lock. Just be in the target box.

[Wispsy]

Belorion, on 19 May 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

Again I will have to disagree with you there. If that is all they are doing they are going to do little damage, get killed quickly, or otherwise be a burden on their team. A good lrm pilot can help change the tide of the battle, a bad one not so much.




I have taken out lights in my AC-20 Jager and Dual PPC + Ballistic Atlases much faster than I can with streaks. With the streaks I have to maintain lock, pursue and do so over a much longer time. With the others I can leg shot once, then either hit the other leg, cockpit shot or otherwise take them down fast.

Yes but I imagine there are plenty of times in your AC20 Jager that you missed the light mech and they took no damage. Now just you try missing that light mech with your ssrms...oh wait you need only wave your mouse in the direction of a massive red box and it cores them out for you...

Edited by Wispsy, 19 May 2013 - 09:18 AM.

[trollocaustic]

Quote

It was perfect shot after perfect shot from streaks.

Good luck actually locking on with it on a jenner.
If you do, you deserve to kill it, and every other jenner on the map for 0 ammo and heat instantly.

[PaintedWolf]

It sucks.

Most people want their game to be easy-mode. Most people do not want their game to be a Second Job. By making LRMs/SRMs "hard mode" PGI has alienated most people.

[Belorion]

Wispsy, on 19 May 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

Yes but I imagine there are plenty of times in your AC20 Jager that you missed the light mech and they took no damage. Now just you try missing that light mech with your ssrms...oh wait you need only wave your mouse in the direction of a massive red box and it cores them out for you...

Yes, but for those missed shots, I had to wait for the lock-on to the light. Plus it is possible to miss with streaks if they run over a hill or behind a building or worse behind one of your team mates, where this isn't possible with ballistics.

[Hotthedd]

PaintedWolf, on 19 May 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

It sucks.

Most people want their game to be easy-mode. Most people do not want their game to be a Second Job. By making LRMs/SRMs "hard mode" PGI has alienated most people.

Let us all pray that PGI is wise enough not to cater to that crowd, as there are a myriad of options for the ADHD crowd to play, and they wouldn't stick around long enough to spend money on the game anyway. Making the game too easy (and PGI is already guilty of this) will eventually drive out the existing customers and not retain any (hopeful) new customers.

[PaintedWolf]

It sucks. Who the heck, besides the most Teched out TT player on Earth thinks it is fun for their weapons to be harder to aim and less likely to hit after spending several minutes just finding the enemy and getting in range/lock? That is adding more work to a video game.

Apparently some posters think people play video games to do more work. Working really hard= fun! "It's more fun because you feel more satsifaction at the accomplishments after you work so hard!"

Yes, and hopefully these people will paint my house for free. In fact, they should be paying me, to paint my house and do my chores because I am letting them have all that satisfaction.

[Koniving]

Belorion, on 19 May 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

In honor of the upcoming BAP/ECM changes I thought I would give it a go and see what I could do with it.

I decorated for the occasion.

When everyone complained about streaks being easy mode, they actually played like this:


How they work now:

PaintedWolf, on 19 May 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

It sucks. Who the heck, besides the most Teched out TT player on Earth thinks it is fun for their weapons to be harder to aim and less likely to hit after spending several minutes just finding the enemy and getting in range/lock? That is adding more work to a video game.

Play Skyrim, turn on Godmode, and type in CompleteAllQuestsNow.

Game's over. You won. Now was that satisfying?

[PaintedWolf]

Hotthedd, on 19 May 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

Let us all pray that PGI is wise enough not to cater to that crowd, as there are a myriad of options for the ADHD crowd to play, and they wouldn't stick around long enough to spend money on the game anyway. Making the game too easy (and PGI is already guilty of this) will eventually drive out the existing customers and not retain any (hopeful) new customers.

Hotthedd, on 19 May 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

Let us all pray that PGI is wise enough not to cater to that crowd, as there are a myriad of options for the ADHD crowd to play, and they wouldn't stick around long enough to spend money on the game anyway. Making the game too easy (and PGI is already guilty of this) will eventually drive out the existing customers and not retain any (hopeful) new customers.

Bull. Having more people play the game makes it more popular- meaning people will stay.

Having more revenue means more graphics, more quality, more features- that makes people stay.

Having a good buzz in the culture makes people stay, along with a good, constant, flashy reward system.

What will kill the game is when it becomes tedious and boring. When there are so few people match-making takes forever, nobody talks about it, and nobody cares because the game has become too much work. If you want to work- go out and work. Don't take your Work Ethic into a Video Game.