39 replies to this topic

[Rhent]

So if you want to get easy kills what would you aim at?

I recently decided to switch tactics for a few matches and go for legs exclusively. The difference was startling. Getting kills was about 50% easier. About the only mechs I'd think second of legging would be the Atlas or Highlander, and even then if I see them with heavy missile or autocannon, I'm switching to the legs to get easy ammo explosions.

[King Arthur IV]

i aim head, cuz im that good

[Rhent]

King Arthur IV, on 28 May 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

i aim head, cuz im that good

Or your playing in an ELO bracket where people stand still too much or charge mechs head on without torso turning or serpentining. You can't do that with exposed legs.

[Bilbo]

The problem with shooting a properly built Atlas in the leg is that it has more armor on the legs than anything but the Center Torso. While you are shooting him in the leg he looses no firepower with which to shoot back at you or your team mates.

[Rhent]

Bilbo, on 28 May 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

The problem with shooting a properly built Atlas in the leg is that it has more armor on the legs than anything but the Center Torso. While you are shooting him in the leg he looses no firepower with which to shoot back at you or your team mates.

Correct on the Atlas, but again it depends on his load out. If he's sporting an AC/20 + 3 SRM6 w/ Artemis, you can bet your bippy he has rounds in his legs. Meanwhile, any Atlas pilot worth his salt will be spinning his torso to spread that focused damage from his CT to his Arms and other Torsos. Spinning your torso does nothing for their legs. So instead of waiting for the CT to be exposed, you can do twice the damage to his always exposed legs.

[JackPoint]

Never shoot an atlas in the leg, at best he as 84 armour per leg at worst 60+, your better off aiming for the left right torso area as they have a max of 56 armour and on D-DC's that's where the ecm is stored. Kill the ECM and your teammates can let rip with the stupidly op LRMS-SSRM's-SRM's to decimate the core.

[Deathlike]

I actually believe that most mech designs tend to skimp on the leg armor... we tend to armor our mechs to make sure we're still weapons operational (especially as an assault), but not necessarily for optimal mobility (like a light mech). Leg armor is easily the first bits of tonnage to be skimped on...

That's probably why legging works more often than not.

Edited by Deathlike, 28 May 2013 - 08:36 AM.

[TexAce]

All lights: Legs! (although Jenner's CT is easy too)
Cicada: CT
Centurion: Right arm or right side torso
Hunchy: Right torso / 4SP: Wherever
Treb: CT or side torso (often XLs)
BJ: Undecided yet
Dragon: CT (bcs easier to hit, all use XLs, so you can try side torsos but its hard)
Cat: Ears on A1, rest CT
Jagermech: Side torsos
Phracts: Most balanced ones, shoot the big guns first then CT
Atlas: CT
Awesome: c'mon, you can't miss that CT
Stalker: Side torsos
Highlanders: I prefer side torsos

Edit: Post number 666!

Edited by TexAss, 28 May 2013 - 08:45 AM.

[Cyke]

Hmm, you may have struck on something here.

When in need of free tonnage to mount extra weaponry, a lot of players tend to cut down on leg armor first.. often even when maintaining maximum armor on the head, arms and torso sections.

Furthermore, ammo stored in the legs will actually cut down on the amount of firepower needed to destroy the leg. You don't need to shoot all the way through that (probably unmaxed) armor AND structure, because ammo is likely to explode and do the job for you.
Scoring a critical on that leg-mounted ammo is good, because there's only six critical slots in each leg, and two of them are probably ammo bins (therefore 1/3rd of the slots are ammo).

Lastly, defensive torso twisting does nothing to protect the legs, especially in Assault 'Mechs with abysmal turning rates.


So in conclusion, if an Assault 'Mech mounts a lot of tons of weapons, and seems to be traveling at good speed (heavy engine), there's a good chance he doesn't have max leg armor.
And if a lot of those big guns have big ammo appetites, he probably has lots of ammo.. in the legs.


I'd still say the conventional wisdom holds that you should shoot for the CT (or RT on an Atlas), but you just may be on to something.

[redreaper]

i find that highlander poptarts rip loads of armour off their legs leg emm and they can hop all they want they are gonna die.

[Deathlike]

Cyke, on 28 May 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

Furthermore, ammo stored in the legs will actually cut down on the amount of firepower needed to destroy the leg. You don't need to shoot all the way through that (probably unmaxed) armor AND structure, because ammo is likely to explode and do the job for you.
Scoring a critical on that leg-mounted ammo is good, because there's only six critical slots in each leg, and two of them are probably ammo bins (therefore 1/3rd of the slots are ammo).

Crits in the legs don't really do anything. So if you shoot the leg, you are DIRECTLY SHOOTING AT THE AMMO when the leg is exposed.

[Side Step]

One bonus with hitting legs is the armor is the same for front and back. making it a good alternative to center torso vs mechs which tend to twist a lot.

I usually aim CT though, cause there's not point in stripping leg armor if everyone else on the team is going for CT.

[Zerberus]

Rhent, on 28 May 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:

Correct on the Atlas, but again it depends on his load out. If he's sporting an AC/20 + 3 SRM6 w/ Artemis, you can bet your bippy he has rounds in his legs.

Yes... and 84 armor /leg, meaning that by teh time you`ve gotten through one leg for the 20% chance (2 tons x10% base chance /ton.. this however disregards that 66% of the crit slots are shared by "non crittable" actuators..... So it`s more like a 6% chance in theory, in practice it`S probably still more like 20) he`s probably taken your CT out or that of a teammate, and can still deliver a 50+ point alphastrike.

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Meanwhile, any Atlas pilot worth his salt will be spinning his torso to spread that focused damage from his CT to his Arms and other Torsos. Spinning your torso does nothing for their legs. So instead of waiting for the CT to be exposed, you can do twice the damage to his always exposed legs.

Or you can aim specifically for the side torsos like most do and disarm him completely (except a D with 2CT MLs) in the time it would take you to knock out one leg, leaving you and/or your teammates with your own side torsos and weapons so as to be able to continue the fight.

Case in point I actually WAS legged in my D-DC yesterday. No ammo explosion generated, partly becasue my SRM ammo was already spent by the time it was stripped, and in the time it took whoever it was to do it I cored a highlander, a cent, a trebuchet. And I got a 4th kill on an ac/40 Jäger before I lost my other leg.

A legged assault is like a freshly caught Shark on the deck of a fishing boat. He`s out of his element, and not as effective as he would normally be... but make one mistake and you`re still about to be very dead

I don`t think sacrificing half of the team for a single atlas is a good tradeoff, but maybe that`s just me. Then again, in Anti-Armor tactics we were taught one thing, and I quote "NEVER forget the turret, the tracks can`t shoot you." The meaning being: Disarmed and mobile is MUCH metter and healthier for you than immobilized but still packing a wallop. What`s a disarmed mech gonna do, ram you repeatedly for 1 Pt of Dmg each time? Conversely, I know exactly what an armed mech will do, and it`s a lot more than 1 Pt, a lot more often.

The theory behind shooting the legs of assaults is somewhat sound, but it usually doesn`t work out that way in practice. Simply because you`re essentially doubling the amount of damage you need to cause for a kill while allowing the Assault to wail on you and your teammates unbhindered the whole time, without that "penalty".

Edited by Zerberus, 28 May 2013 - 09:39 AM.

[Cyke]

Deathlike, on 28 May 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

Crits in the legs don't really do anything. So if you shoot the leg, you are DIRECTLY SHOOTING AT THE AMMO when the leg is exposed.

Nice!
Would be even more effective than I initially summed up, then.


Side Step makes a good point though. Not much of a point shooting for legs unless your buddies are doing the same thing.
If for some reason your lance did shoot the legs along with you, and the target really had poorly armored, ammo-filled legs, though...



Edit: Ah, Zerberus noted he lost an ammo-filled leg and there was no ammo explosion.

Oh well.

Edited by Cyke, 28 May 2013 - 08:52 AM.

[AnnoyingCat]

If you blew their legs up, they are going to the moon

[Rhent]

Zerberus, on 28 May 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

Yes... and 84 armor /leg, meaning that by teh time you`ve gotten through one leg for the 20% chance (2 tons x10%/ton ) he`s probably taken your CT out or that of a teammate, and can still deliver a 50+ point alphastrike.



Or you can aim specifically for the side torsos like most do and disarm him completely (except a D) in the time it would take you to knock out one leg, leaving you and/or your teammates with your own side torsos and weapons so as to be able to continue teh fight.

Case in point I actually WAS legged in my D-DC yesterday. No ammo explosion generated, and in the time it took whoever it was to do it I cored A highlander, a cent, a trebuchet, and got a 4th kill on an ac/40 Jäger before I lost my other leg.

I don`t think sacrificing half of the team fore a single atlas is a good tradeoff, but maybe that`s just me

You are are also waiting for the Atlas to look towards you to fire. So you are holding off firing, until he torso turns to hit him in his CT. If he's a good pilot, you will be shooting rounds into his arms, back, side torsos and ct while he comes to you. No, if you focus fire on his legs. in two shots you'd broke through his armor and if he has ammo there there is a good chance you just blew his leg off. Mind you, my range is 45 a shot. So in 4 seconds I've just done 90 damage, in 8 seconds I've done 135, meaning his leg is gone in 8 seconds. From there, he's moving at 20 KPH, and I can then seek cover to remove his other leg or take off his CT. By the time he looses a leg, my lights are on him picking him off.

Just writing what I saw, on Heavies on down its pretty much an auto win if they expose their legs. On Assaults its a bit more of a risk, but it depends on where you are engaging. At range, I exclusively aim at his legs to remove a leg to keep him at my optimal firing range (crippled at 800M).

[OneEyed Jack]

redreaper, on 28 May 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

i find that highlander poptarts rip loads of armour off their legs leg emm and they can hop all they want they are gonna die.

I think that that's probably not correct. The legs just take a beating from the jumping and shots aimed at them going low.

[TexAce]

someone once made a test how big a chance for ammo explosion REALLY is (despite the numbers given to us).
He found out it's so minimal, it's not worth seeking ammo crits at all. What he did was shooting Cat side torsos with ammo on and on in training grounds. Only 3 percent of all side torsos exploded because of an ammo explosion, all others were destroyed before the ammo cooked off.

So yeah, have fun seeking those ammo explosions.

From all my 1000+ deaths I probably witnessed about 10 ammo explosions on my mechs. And died only about 3 times because of one.

Edited by TexAss, 28 May 2013 - 09:14 AM.

[Deathlike]

Ammo explosions are meant to be a bonus... not something people should be focused on getting (like crits and MGs).

[Zerberus]

Rhent, on 28 May 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

You are are also waiting for the Atlas to look towards you to fire. So you are holding off firing, until he torso turns to hit him in his CT.

This is not entirely correct, specifically on the Atlas, as the front torso hitboxes can also be hit from the rear (the "bulges" on the left and right waists, i.e. teh srm tubes and Ballistic barrel, respectively. Again, nobody except maybe another Atlas shoots for CT on an Atlas, that is already the first mistake.

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If he's a good pilot, you will be shooting rounds into his arms, back, side torsos and ct while he comes to you.

I have to disagree. If he`s a good pilot, he will ignore you completely and turn his attention to someone that presents a credible threat (ie. not shooting at his legs). Again, I don`t know who was shooting my legs, didn`t care, and teh results speak for themselves. 4:1 KDR in that match, with over 800 dmg done by myself.

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No, if you focus fire on his legs. in two shots you'd broke through his armor and if he has ammo there there is a good chance you just blew his leg off. Mind you, my range is 45 a shot. So in 4 seconds I've just done 90 damage, in 8 seconds I've done 135, meaning his leg is gone in 8 seconds. From there, he's moving at 20 KPH, and I can then seek cover to remove his other leg or take off his CT. By the time he looses a leg, my lights are on him picking him off.

Just writing what I saw, on Heavies on down its pretty much an auto win if they expose their legs. On Assaults its a bit more of a risk, but it depends on where you are engaging. At range, I exclusively aim at his legs to remove a leg to keep him at my optimal firing range (crippled at 800M).

AAAH, now I think I see what`s going on, please correct me if I`m wrong.. you play a ranged build and leg (brawler) atlases that are green and /or stupid enough to not understand that they need to use cover until they are 270m or less away. I was assuming a "fair" engagement, and not an obviously one side one. Most brawlers are useless beyond 500m, and have no business even seeing you at 800. That`s what scouts are for.

No discredit meant to you, but shooting fish in a barrel is always easy. A brawler out in the open is an ***** that deserves to die slowly and painfully, and legging him first is a great way to teach him the lesson of "Use cover on approach".

The people that understand that on the other hand will not even show up on your screen until they are in SRM range, and if you decide to shoot their legs as was the case yesterday in my example, they will proceed to assassinate half of your team while you do so. Becasue they know they can if they can aim.

Edited by Zerberus, 28 May 2013 - 09:39 AM.