36 replies to this topic

[DemonRaziel]

I don't think OP is referring solely to the current LRM (ab)use, but is more likely referring to the "bigger picture" of the recent snipe fest/whack-a-mole minigame present in the game prior to this weeks patch.
It's true that many people just want to win and prefer the easiest way possible, so resort to the most powerful (cheesy? OP?) item available on the market to achieve their goal.

At first it's just a couple of people, probably, then they inspire more "copy-cats". Next thing, another bunch of players claims "the only way to counter cheese is with cheese" and use this as a justification to follow the trend.
The cheesiest builds also tend to make the most impact in the game, so even if there were only 2 or 3 players in a game that used the current FOTM build, those are the ones you are most likely to remember.

In the end, that's why it seems everyone is succumbing to the current FOTM and deploying only the most overpowered and broken builds they can.

Vassago Rain, on 23 May 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

PVP game.

This should actually be the reason not to, IMO. If you play against an AI, your opponents couldn't care less if you are exploiting the living crap out of the game (unless you play against SkyNet, he (it?) might not like it, I guess). Using exploits against real people is just not fair and encourages the "to remain competitive you need to join the train" behavior.

But then again, I have always been kind of a dreamer...

Edited by DemonRaziel, 23 May 2013 - 03:02 PM.

[MuKen]

As someone who has tried to design games in the past and run them by testers, I will say straight up the most useless testers I have are the ones who don't want to experiment with stuff they think is 'unfair'. If players are making up their own self-rules to balance the game, that does not help the developer balance the real game. The most useful testers are the ones that exploit everything they think they can exploit mercilessly, and show the developer exactly what is broken, and more importantly HOW it is broken and how broken it is.

Edited by MuKen, 23 May 2013 - 03:02 PM.

[Deathlike]

I would like people to rain LRMs on the PGI 8-man team. Then, we will get results.

[Zordicron]

Tibs, on 23 May 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

people. like to tear down then build up,

signed, the U.S. military.

[Soy]

MuKen, on 23 May 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

The most useful testers are the ones that exploit everything they think they can exploit mercilessly, and show the developer exactly what is broken, and more importantly HOW it is broken and how broken it is.

The most useless testers are the ones that exploit everything they think they can exploit mercilessly, and never show the developer or anyone else exactly what is broken, and more importantly HOW it is broken and how broken it is.

(just wanted to add that)

Edited by Soy, 23 May 2013 - 03:28 PM.

[MuKen]

Soy, on 23 May 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

The most useless testers are the ones that exploit everything they think they can exploit mercilessly, and never show the developer or anyone else exactly what is broken, and more importantly HOW it is broken and how broken it is.

(just wanted to add that)

Yes, I completely agree, speaking up when you see a problem is important.

Weren't you just agreeing with someone in another thread that people should shut up about stuff they think is broken, and just play the game?

I don't mean this as aggression, I'm just honestly curious what your thought process is here.

[Soy]

Yes if all the want to do is cry, it's not conducive to having fun. They should probably focus more on having fun, being entertained, relaxin n maxin chillin all cool shootin some ppcs outside of the school.

That's not necessarily directly related to a question about ethics. Some people have no sense of morality in either themselves or as the personas they are projecting while playing, and as such their feedback to the game and what they pursue in game won't be undermined by doing the right thing. Those types want to do the win thing.

Edited by Soy, 23 May 2013 - 03:34 PM.

[MuKen]

I don't recall anybody crying in that thread, unless you define the simple act of pointing out what one considers to be a problem as "crying". Which brings us back to point one: aren't you telling people NOT to give feedback that would be useful to developers?

[Soy]

In which thread?

Dude look around you right now, it's like fallout from a nuke that dropped on Tuesday. ********

[MuKen]

All of which is useful feedback to the developers. When I have people test games I make, the guy that gives calm collected feedback is the most useful, sure. But the guy that ******* and moans about stuff that was unfair is still a good sight more useful than the guy that "shuts up and plays" while avoiding things he thinks are unfair so I never see them.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2378504

Edited by MuKen, 23 May 2013 - 03:43 PM.

[Soy]

And that has nothing at all to do with anything we're discussing.

[MuKen]

I don't see how it doesn't. The point we're both making in this thread is that it's important for a game in beta testing for players speak up when something is a problem. And the point that was being made in that thread is people need to shut up and just play. Seems wholly relevant to me...

[Soy]

Dude you realize I have the most viewed thread since the patch, and it is literally about Seismic Module being overpowered.

Right.

So to insinuate that I'm not putting in work to make this game better is folly.

[MuKen]

I didn't say that you weren't.

Like I said, I didn't mean this as an attack, it was just a curiosity to me that you're saying two opposite things in two different threads. I mean if you were debating with somebody in one room, and they were telling you homosexual marriage is an abomination, and then later you saw them telling someone else homosexuals should be able to marry, you'd be curious about it right?

Edited by MuKen, 23 May 2013 - 03:50 PM.

[Soy]

I think people who are like "FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF" should definitely shut the fudge up and play and try and have fun cuz it's obvious as hell that they are not having fun in that moment.

What the **** does same sex marriage debate have to do with pooping on people wigging out emotionally over things. It's fairly obvious when someone is attempting to have a legitimate discussion about something in a serious capacity and are bringing an honest opinion on things. Sometimes it's cheeky but if there is merit in someones opinions it's usually obvious.

Panzier is a good player, kinda a ******, but his opinion is worth merit. Some random guy who posts that Paul should be fired IRL is not worth responding to beyond a "shut the hell up".

Why am I explaining this; don't retort this last bit of rhetoric plox.

PS - why is 'nut ter' censored?

Edited by Soy, 23 May 2013 - 03:53 PM.

[JodoKaden]

Guys, PGI is hopefully going to hotfix this tomorrow. Please calm down and just take a day off if you are that burned out and angry. That said I got REALLY annoyed when I was playing earlier today. Even though most of my games I have done fairly well, (short of when I was trolling in a medium/light) I had to play in a manner I did not enjoy playing in to win. (Playing timidly with a brawler/playing a sniper.)

[Lykaon]

Jestun, on 23 May 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

How will the metrics recorded from our matches show PGI where the balance problems are if people don't use unbalanced setups?

They cannot take forum posts at face value when making balance decisions, they need to assess the actual data. The data is only there if we provide it by using the setups.

This is a beta test, not a released game.

You have just won Beta!

This is exactally why I piloted a Raven 3L through all the over featured ECM and borked hitbox issues.

Test the cheese and the Devs will have more data to conclude if it is cheese or if it needs to be de-cheesed.