436 replies to this topic

[arghmace]

Omni 13, on 24 May 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

a better fix would be to make LRMs spread out more the more missiles you fire at the target, thus slightly penalising boats without castrating mechs with 1-2 launchers

Hear, hear! In general no single weapon in this game is OP. It's the boating that must be punished.

[Lightfoot]

arghmace, on 24 May 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

This here is actually the main problem. A single LRM launcher is not very good in ratio to it's tonnage - especially with AMS. The mechs that allow boating of LRM's are the problem. Now let's see. Stalker 5S has 10, 10, 6 and 6 tubes. What the heck? It doesn't even look like a proper LRM15/LRM20 carrier. One good fix would be to increase the time between volleys when you don't have enough launch tubes. That would weaken these stupid Stalker boats alot.

It does already. If your mech doesn't have 20 tubes an LRM20 will fire in however many salvos it takes to launch 20 missiles, and each salvo delays the LRM20 from recharging.

[TheSteelRhino]

Dude42, on 24 May 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

Well, I for one am just gonna do like the poptarts and ridge humpers did, and cry on the forums till they "fix it". I bet if we create 10 different posts saying how UP missiles are they'll fix them. Oh wait, we've been saying that for months and they just ignored it. Can we at least get them to officially rename the game to Poptarts Online?

Edit: Before anyone says anything about me not being able to kill them. I can, it's not even hard. It's just not fun.

Suggestion:..GIVE IT A CHANCE before you complain? If you have an issue AFTER the hotfix then you can make an argument. Right now you just sound close minded.

1). Splash damage was still BROKEN from before. BROKEN. On light mechs that can mean damage hitting multiple components.
2). With a spotter the math for the trajectory was off causing them to come down at nearly 90 degrees.
3). Then the damage and speed was buffed
4). Still no Host state rewind for missiles

What does this tell us? Be patient. You are almost there. They are fixing the splash, correcting the broken angle. Now once you HSR, and they get heat penalties in for multiple weapons firing at once we'll nearly have a battletech game.

THEN they can likely get it nice and balanced. And I suspect your LRM damage would go up a bit.

But to be honest...a single LRM in tabletop does 1 damage (with no splash) It's at .9 now. And every other weapon in game (except MG and flamers) is doing Very close to tabletop dmg. (large lasers might be slightly buffed)

And don't give me an argument that this is NOT tabletop. We all know that, but it is based off of TT.

Just give it a chance.

[DeaconW]

arghmace, on 24 May 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

What? Just because stupid lambs copy each others doesn't mean the game mechanics force you to play with certain builds. I just provided an example of how our team won 100% of our battles with non-LRM-mechs. So saying that the last patch forced everyone to use LRM's if they wanna win is just plain false.

Yeah...because people playing the game won't figure out what is OP in a game and use that...I know, it's never happened on any online game, ever. Sorry for my confusion....

Seriously...having a statistical outlier where you happen to win against the current OP meta is not evidence that the meta is not still OP. Basic logic. People are not boating LRM's right now because of some "I want to dress like Kim Kardashian" fad...the frontrunners rapidly figured out that LRM's were now on top of the pile, just like PPC poptarding before, and others followed. Only when there is true balance will a variety of weapons types and platforms be seen in use with minor blips for hero mech use of release week and stuff...at least that is how it SHOULD work if the game has a good balance.

[Commander Kobold]

Thontor, on 24 May 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

Hopefully this makes using LRMs fun again like they were between March 21 and May 21.

Since Teusday's patch, I have had no desire to use LRMs because easy mode is just boring.

Before that, it was a challenge to actually hit mechs and get kills. Yet it was very possible with effort. And being rewarded for a challenging effort makes things fun.

Now there is no challenge, no effort required... That just sounds boring.

Hopefully this hotfix makes LRMs fun to use again.

I don't know exactly what you mean by that, they still had all the weaknesses they had before, they're not easy mode and to get the steep angle benefit kind of requires some semblance of teamwork (you need someone to hold a lock for you for about5-6 seconds) and you still need to make sure nothing gets into your dead zone and/or snipes you.

[Dude42]

Lightfoot, on 24 May 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

It does already. If your mech doesn't have 20 tubes an LRM20 will fire in however many salvos it takes to launch 20 missiles, and each salvo delays the LRM20 from recharging.

He was saying make the delay between the salvos higher. For example firing 20 missiles from 10 tubes would take 5 seconds(shot, wait, shot). Not saying I agree, just clarifying his meaning for you.

[arghmace]

Lightfoot, on 24 May 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

It does already. If your mech doesn't have 20 tubes an LRM20 will fire in however many salvos it takes to launch 20 missiles, and each salvo delays the LRM20 from recharging.

Yes, I know. What I was suggesting was that maybe make the time delay between volleys longer. That way boating huge launchers in few tubes will be less effective than now.

[DeaconW]

Omni 13, on 24 May 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

can you not read?

Oh, I'm sorry...I didn't realize PGI was so good at patches that their patch notes described exactly how a patch would effect the game. I mean, they have a strong history of hitting the mark with their patches, right? Again....make your prediction, in detail, or just be quiet until the patch actually goes live. Then gripe about the *actual effect*.

[Commander Kobold]

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 24 May 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

2). With a spotter the math for the trajectory was off causing them to come down at nearly 90 degrees.
3). Then the damage and speed was buffed

2)it never drops anywhere near that steeply
3)the speed buff barely shaves a second off the flight time from A-B and the DMG buff won't be as effective because it's not going to spread anymore.

[Dude42]

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 24 May 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

Suggestion:..GIVE IT A CHANCE before you complain? If you have an issue AFTER the hotfix then you can make an argument. Right now you just sound close minded.

1). Splash damage was still BROKEN from before. BROKEN. On light mechs that can mean damage hitting multiple components.
2). With a spotter the math for the trajectory was off causing them to come down at nearly 90 degrees.
3). Then the damage and speed was buffed
4). Still no Host state rewind for missiles

What does this tell us? Be patient. You are almost there. They are fixing the splash, correcting the broken angle. Now once you HSR, and they get heat penalties in for multiple weapons firing at once we'll nearly have a battletech game.

THEN they can likely get it nice and balanced. And I suspect your LRM damage would go up a bit.

But to be honest...a single LRM in tabletop does 1 damage (with no splash) It's at .9 now. And every other weapon in game (except MG and flamers) is doing Very close to tabletop dmg. (large lasers might be slightly buffed)

And don't give me an argument that this is NOT tabletop. We all know that, but it is based off of TT.

Just give it a chance.

Do you know how fast the first "LRM OP HELP" thread appeared on Tuesday? In order to play like they do, I have to start before trying it, before attempting to adjust my playstyle, or before making any attempt to do anything but QQ.

Edited by Dude42, 24 May 2013 - 08:27 AM.

[Kitane]

Lightfoot, on 24 May 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

It does already. If your mech doesn't have 20 tubes an LRM20 will fire in however many salvos it takes to launch 20 missiles, and each salvo delays the LRM20 from recharging.

Except the tube limit is applied to each launcher separately. If you shoot two LRM20 through 10 tubes, both launchers will fire two waves at the same time, resulting in 20+20 missiles.

[Commander Kobold]

Dude42, on 24 May 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

He was saying make the delay between the salvos higher. For example firing 20 missiles from 10 tubes would take 5 seconds(shot, wait, shot). Not saying I agree, just clarifying his meaning for you.

I don't know about 5 seconds it takes about that much time to hit things anyway XD

Edited by Omni 13, 24 May 2013 - 08:28 AM.

[Firenze]

hey, tbh, at least I have my AMS. Which is now actually bloody useful.

Also... I dont see how people are pissy at people who have always played as a PPC sniper....

[OpCentar]

Skyfaller, on 24 May 2013 - 05:45 AM, said:

Uh..no. I'm an LRM boat pilot and the splash is precisely what makes missiles so ridiculous now (aside from the wonky flight path). The splash makes each missile end up doing nearly twice the damage it should do because a lot of its damage is splashed to the next section..being the CT in most cases.

The reduction of splash and keeping the damage at the upgraded 0.9 is just about perfect. The flight path was fixed to pre-patch pattern which is good.

I also pilot a C1[F] with 2xLRM15+Artemis as my most used mech.

Without splash, with only 0.9 damage, I might as well lose the 20+t of launchers+ammo and simply replace them all with PPCs. Their low damage and damage spread do not justify that kind of tonnage.


As many players already wrote - the assault 60+ LRM boats are the problem, not base, single missile damage.

The irony is that a 60+ LRM boat will still nuke most mechs in two-three salvos even without splash damage but all other taking one or two launchers will be useless.


It's another stupid case of balancing (nerfing) weapons around boats which ruin them for everyone else.

[Dude42]

Firenze, on 24 May 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

hey, tbh, at least I have my AMS. Which is now actually bloody useful.

Also... I dont see how people are pissy at people who have always played as a PPC sniper....

Did you just say you didn't know why people didn't like PPC boats?



QFT

[Mister Blastman]

Omni 13, on 24 May 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

2)it never drops anywhere near that steeply
3)the speed buff barely shaves a second off the flight time from A-B and the DMG buff won't be as effective because it's not going to spread anymore.

So you think a free CT coring every time is balanced? Even with streaks?

Are you high?

[Lightfoot]

Make LRMs 'Fire and Forget' with 'Line of Sight' to the target and you might be able to balance LRMs with direct fire weapons.

This would actually make boating LRMs less likely.

I think the only reason players boat LRMs now is because they have no way to compete with direct fire weapons so they can't take a mixed loadout, as in Battletech. The LRM is useless in it's current form unless the player camps in the distance, and so the only recourse is to load the mech with maximum LRMs.

[VagGR]

OpCentar, on 24 May 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

Without splash, with only 0.9 damage, I might as well lose the 20+t of launchers+ammo and simply replace them all with PPCs. Their low damage and damage spread do not justify that kind of tonnage.

the fact that you can stay almost a kilometer away and fire your missiles without exposing yourself, and without too much trouble aiming i believe justifies it enough...

[Firenze]

Dude42, on 24 May 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

Did you just say you didn't know why people didn't like PPC boats?



QFT

Oh no, I know why they dont like them. But I've played a sniper in every game I've ever got. I just prefer the one-shot one-kill mentality. Its personal preference. Even if the PPCs went down to half their damage, I'd still play sniper. because I enjoy it.

Edited by Firenze, 24 May 2013 - 08:36 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

LRMs actually worked the best and most appropriately in MW 2: Mercenaries. They would swarm a target and... distribute damage over the entire mech!

They would "melt" their target slowly. Even a 13xLRM 10 Atlas would take a while to kill a target. But it was FUN! AMS was very useful too.