436 replies to this topic

[Crockdaddy]

BlueSanta, on 23 May 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

The damage and spread is not the problem, the arc is (concerning LRMs).

As for Streaks, the problem is that you have the target locations too close to the CT and the splash damage radius too wide.

You don't know what your talking about and it shows. LRM's splash hits the CT. If you don't know that then you are either trolling or just ignorant of the reality of the situation.

[Dude42]

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 24 May 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

So..now this is interesting. What if you are an atlas or highlander pilot, faced with 5 missile boats. I bet getting to 180 meters isn't so easy now is it. Now I typically drive mediums most of the time. Yeah..getting to 180 meters isn't really a problem...but if they are in 2 groups, and you are the ONLY MEDIUM MECH IN A PUG GROUP..Even if those 5 mechs had 10 mediums lasers between them..you are still screwed.

It is a team game. Teams are literally bringing LRMS stalkers, LRM Atllai, LRM Highlanders, etc...frosted with a light to medium dusting of Ravens, commandos etc for spotting and to defend the LRM boats....

If you can explain to me how that atlas wades through 5 of ANY MECH I'll consider your point. I pretty much feel like if 5 people are shooting you, you deserve to die. No matter what they're shooting you with. Hell, 5 lights decked out with all MGs could core the same Atlas before it walked 180 meters. What, exactly, is your point here? I never said go Rambo style straight down the middle in plain view of everything.

Edited by Dude42, 24 May 2013 - 09:01 AM.

[DeaconW]

Dude42, on 24 May 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

I laughed. AC/20s are CLOSE RANGE WEAPONS. That's why 2xAC/20 mechs HUG YOU TO DEATH. And if you can't get withing 200m of an LRM boat I feel bad for you. Also, how the hell do you know how much effect you SHOULD be getting? Wouldn't that depend on the skill of your opponents?

Sigh...dude...I have a 2xAC20 JAG in my stable. I know how to drive it. on another point: If ELO was working....wouldn't the skill of my opponents be matched to me? But I digress...here is what i know...my LRM boat before could maybe get 1 kill and 200-300 pts of damage in an average match. I am now routinely getting 500-600, sometimes >1000 pts with 3-5 kills per match. I know I am not that good. Two things are making that happen...LRM's are way more effective than before and the LRM effect has nerfed the poptart gameplay. My skill didn't change.

Omni 13, on 24 May 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

I think he meant short range as in the AC20 is a short range weapon.

Thank you, Yes.

[Commander Kobold]

VagGR, on 24 May 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

listen...i dont lrm boat.i dont ppc boat and i dont poptart...

yes, having missiles dropping at 90degfrees on your head did punish the poptarts and we do see less of them but it also punishes everyone else..yes we less poptart but do you know what we see more of? LRM boats...replacing potards with lrm boats is your solution?!

i want all weapons to be viable..this solves nothing

again they did not drop at 90 degrees at all I both saw and received the missile spike and it wasn't anywhere near that bad.

[Slacker60]

Why wouldn't you have a missile that drops almost straight down? People are whining because it messes with what they have become accustomed to.

No lets not change, lets nerf missile development so we don't have to adjust. Good job bending to the whiners!!!

Why not add another type of missile? Higher arc, takes more fuel so does less damage but gains the ability to hit mechs behind cover?

We have many more types of ballistic weapons than missiles, hell we have more energy types than we do missiles.

[VagGR]

Omni 13, on 24 May 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

again they did not drop at 90 degrees at all I both saw and received the missile spike and it wasn't anywhere near that bad.

i know it wasnt 90..i just tried to emphasize..the angle was way too steep wether you like it or not..that doesnt mean it should go back to way it was pre-patch..no of course not..but this was a bit too much and almost everyone agrees on that..

again..we should all try it out and then we have all the time in the world to disagree

Edited by VagGR, 24 May 2013 - 09:30 AM.

[Novakaine]

Rocketeers Unite!

[Deathlike]

Niko Snow, on 24 May 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

Additional Update!

Bug Fixes
- Fixed a bug where some users were crashing after loading a map
- Added more server side logging to help track down why certain people are being disconnected midgame.

There's a plus that is not balance related.

[DivineEvil]

Thank you PGI! It's so good you haven't delayed the changes. I hope that would fix the problem

[Chameleon Silk]

I know for sure what were gonna have is a much better balanced game now with LRMs viable even if sprinkled in the mix, I realize ER PPC and gauss range doesn't matter the simple fact of it is they cant fire them as fast so you can get into closer range and then out brawl them with the cooldown change, were gonna see some poptarts, were gonna see some LRM boats, were gonna see some brawlers and snipers... the mix will be much better balanced this time around.

[Dude42]

DeaconW, on 24 May 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

Sigh...dude...I have a 2xAC20 JAG in my stable. I know how to drive it. on another point: If ELO was working....wouldn't the skill of my opponents be matched to me? But I digress...here is what i know...my LRM boat before could maybe get 1 kill and 200-300 pts of damage in an average match. I am now routinely getting 500-600, sometimes >1000 pts with 3-5 kills per match. I know I am not that good. Two things are making that happen...LRM's are way more effective than before and the LRM effect has nerfed the poptart gameplay. My skill didn't change.

So you're using the fact that missile were completely useless before to justify that any performance increase during the time they were less than useless means that in fact they were OP? Also, ELO is a cruel joke. You should see some of my teammates. If ELO was working I would not constantly do 500+ damage, and get 2-5 kills, but still lose because nobody else on the team broke 100. That being said, perhaps some of the performance increase was due to your opponents not being familiar with having to actually worry about LRMs, instead of the "Oh, incoming missile? Let me see where from so I can charge straight at the LRM mech for an easy kill. Lulz"

Edited by Dude42, 24 May 2013 - 09:39 AM.

[DeaconW]

Deathlike, on 24 May 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

There's a plus that is not balance related.

discos are totally balance related!

[Steadfast]

Slacker60, on 24 May 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

Why wouldn't you have a missile that drops almost straight down? People are whining because it messes with what they have become accustomed to.

No lets not change, lets nerf missile development so we don't have to adjust. Good job bending to the whiners!!!

Why not add another type of missile? Higher arc, takes more fuel so does less damage but gains the ability to hit mechs behind cover?

We have many more types of ballistic weapons than missiles, hell we have more energy types than we do missiles.

Actually they said to hot fix this before anyone was in his lrm boat throwing missiles around. They said so during patch that these changes did not make the cut but would be hot fixed. So. if you enjoyed your missilewarrior online the last two days - those where a bug.
Now its working as intended. Lets see if its still enough, but whatever and however you voice your opinion/ observations - be a good sport and keep it civil.

Cheers
Daniel

[DeaconW]

Dude42, on 24 May 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

So you're using the fact that missile were completely useless before to justify that any performance increase during the time they were less than useless means that in fact they were OP?

Do you really have a reading comprehension problem? Or are you just purposely obtuse? I never said they were "useless earlier" so I couldn't use that to say they were OP now. I said (and PGI apparently agrees) that their LRM buff went too far. Let me even be more clear....I agree with the speed and damage buffs...I don't agree with the arc buff and splash damage bug. So I was for a buff for LRM's before but I felt PGI went to far. If you are capable of understanding nuance you should be able to understand my position (even if you don't necessarily agree with it). If not, I am at a loss on how to communicate with you and will cease wasting my time...

Steadfast, on 24 May 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

if you enjoyed your missilewarrior online the last two days - those where a bug.

Agree...and I did!

Quote

Now its working as intended.

Careful, Daniel...let's wait for the hotfix to go live and play with it a bit before it is "working as intended". Remember, ELO is "working as intended"...

[-Muta-]

Geist Null, on 23 May 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

im almost too afraid to log in and see what crazy missle attacks will happen next...

I think it will be easier to get cover as far of what I have read. This because the have nerfed the angle to 60-70 instead of the 80-almost 90 they had put.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I still don't understand why anyone asserts you can stand at 900-1000m, target someone, fire and actually hit with your LRM's.

The ONLY way that works reliably is if you have a dedicated spotter. Which means it takes 2 mechs, 1 of which is standing in the open, to effectively use LRM's.

If you fire from 900-1000m without a person knowingly spotting for you, even with every bell and whistle (advanced decay module, et'al) you will drop lock and miss. If you do some how manage to hold lock through it (act of god, or SHEER stupidity on the part of the opposing mech), odds are a lot of your missiles will impact something besides the target.

Please stop perpetuating this stupid rumor. I've played with LRM's through every up and down, while nothing in this game is truely hard, it is more involved than most every other weapon due to the mechanics.

[Dude42]

DeaconW, on 24 May 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Do you really have a reading comprehension problem? Or are you just purposely obtuse? I never said they were "useless earlier" so I couldn't use that to say they were OP now. I said (and PGI apparently agrees) that their LRM buff went too far. Let me even be more clear....I agree with the speed and damage buffs...I don't agree with the arc buff and splash damage bug. So I was for a buff for LRM's before but I felt PGI went to far. If you are capable of understanding nuance you should be able to understand my position (even if you don't necessarily agree with it). If not, I am at a loss on how to communicate with you and will cease wasting my time...



Agree...and I did!



Careful, Daniel...let's wait for the hotfix to go live and play with it a bit before it is "working as intended". Remember, ELO is "working as intended"...

You did not need to say they were useless before. That part is common knowledge. I'm just saying that the fact they they were completely underpowered before when you could not score well with them, does not necessarily mean that they are now overpowered because you can actually do damage with them. And you may have replied before I finished editing my post about the ELO and player bit, but I expect that accounts for some of the improved performance as well. I do agree that the arc was a little "over the top" (like my pun?) and we all knew splash damage was busted. However, I always understood the plan to be to buff the damage per missile once splash was removed, to make up for it. Clearly this is not the case. I feel that the performance of missiles at 0.7 damage WITH splash, will be HIGHER than the performance of missiles at 0.9 damage without it. I hope that makes sense to you. I feel that there should be at least another 0.2-0.5 buff to per missile damage, to keep them viable.

Edited by Dude42, 24 May 2013 - 09:52 AM.

[Marec Soronson]

I hope that after the hotfix we see some less missile boats. Although their flight path was somewhat too freaky, I didn't think that buffing them was wrong. I had used LRMs on a Hunchback for a while and while it's fun launching swarms of the things, the actual damage was nothing to write home. So a buff was a good thing.
My problem (aside from the trajectory) was something else: There were so many missile boats about, in some games I felt somewhat abandonned, duking it out at close range against the other team - some support would have been nice, but instead of another brawler (or even a semi-sniper hanging back somewhat) there were only those missile boats who were completely absorbed in their own little world, chucking missiles at each other.
Perhaps we'll get a little more active team members now and less "we cover the rear flank" boats.

[DeaconW]

First round felt much more reasonable wrt LRM damage...

[Firenze]

Im liking it much more, Im actually able to take cover now without fear of consistent hits.