75 replies to this topic

[Asmudius Heng]

LordBraxton, on 26 May 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

strong SRMs are the nerf to snipers we need

all this does is make 6ppc stalkers that much better

IMO the stalker is the most OP chassis

and it does not have any JJ variants

Good brawling weapons are something we need but I hardly think that will solve all the problems.

If you have a system where the most boaty of close range is the only solution to the most boaty of long range you get a polarized game. There is no nuance, there is only extremes.

I want to see a game with nuance and mechs that can have multiple ranges and be effective rather than bringing the most bang for thier buck at a single range only.

I want a game where balance builds are the norm because they can work in many situations while more extreme builds are effective, but have SERIOUS drawbacks. We are not there yet.

JJ shake IMO is a step in the right direction to help this. Smooth jumping gives long range snipers a huge advantage in temrs of being able to hit and not take return fire, plus the added advantage of mobility etc.

[keith]

Asmudius Heng, on 26 May 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

Good brawling weapons are something we need but I hardly think that will solve all the problems.

If you have a system where the most boaty of close range is the only solution to the most boaty of long range you get a polarized game. There is no nuance, there is only extremes.

I want to see a game with nuance and mechs that can have multiple ranges and be effective rather than bringing the most bang for thier buck at a single range only.

I want a game where balance builds are the norm because they can work in many situations while more extreme builds are effective, but have SERIOUS drawbacks. We are not there yet.

JJ shake IMO is a step in the right direction to help this. Smooth jumping gives long range snipers a huge advantage in temrs of being able to hit and not take return fire, plus the added advantage of mobility etc.

but theres no maps that having JJs without being a popsniper doesn't really give u an advantage unless your a light. a med with JJ don't make me laugh. pointless. thats the hunchy, treb and blackjack. name any map where having JJs with help their cause to give u an advantage? very few spots can't not be reached without the help of JJs. heavys, u have praht and cata. JJJs could help them get to decent firing spots, but they would sky line SO bad would not even be funny. they would die to a sniper team down low. assault, the highlander will suffer same problems as heavys. if JJ shake is too bad they will kill JJs.

[TexAce]

keith, on 27 May 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

but theres no maps that having JJs without being a popsniper doesn't really give u an advantage unless your a light. a med with JJ don't make me laugh. pointless. thats the hunchy, treb and blackjack. name any map where having JJs with help their cause to give u an advantage? very few spots can't not be reached without the help of JJs. heavys, u have praht and cata. JJJs could help them get to decent firing spots, but they would sky line SO bad would not even be funny. they would die to a sniper team down low. assault, the highlander will suffer same problems as heavys. if JJ shake is too bad they will kill JJs.

new canyon map. You don't wanna know how aften I thought "hey I can go up there" and then I slided half a kilometer around to find a spot to climb to the damn next ground level
JJs are a nice advantage there since you can hop around on the 3 height levels very quickly and thus run away very fast

Edited by TexAss, 27 May 2013 - 06:15 AM.

[Steadfast]

imo jumpjetshake is important to add, as for me, jumpsniping never was part of the idea of jumpjets. Jumpjets where a means to get mobility, to traverse steep or difficult terrain faster than non jumpjet capable 'Mechs.
Adding a shake ot it is a good start, lets test it out i say.
For other solutions, it should not be Buff Weapon X, but nerf Wpn Y. Otherweise you get instagibb wps. and games which are not my kind of fun.
But than maybe the whole community disagrees on that.
take care
Daniel

[General Taskeen]

OP, take a look at this video. This is Jump Jet done right in a Mech Warrior game.



And yes they introduced "shake," its where MWO pulled that idea from. However, they are doing so without simply overhauling Jump Jets for mobility use.

Edited by General Taskeen, 27 May 2013 - 06:50 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

General Taskeen, on 27 May 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

OP, take a look at this video. This is Jump Jet done right in a Mech Warrior game.



And yes they introduced "shake," its where MWO pulled that idea from. However, they are doing so without simply overhauling Jump Jets for mobility use.

.......that's not going to stop jump sniping...infact that kind of reminds me of watching Hawken mechs slide left and right...which will actually be more a problem

Edited by DV McKenna, 27 May 2013 - 08:11 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

The video actually proves that unless the shake is permanent from take off until landing, then what is the point.

Jump, Shake until apex, stop Jets, Float, unload guns, Drop back down.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Forgot to mention, what i do want however and unlreated are those HTAL bars!

[LonestarrSB]

MaddMaxx, on 27 May 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

The video actually proves that unless the shake is permanent from take off until landing, then what is the point.

Jump, Shake until apex, stop Jets, Float, unload guns, Drop back down.

What if not only with a little bit of shake, they increase fall damage to legs (which they should do anyways). that will stop them from constantly maxing out a jump and landing to repeat it.

[MaddMaxx]

LonestarrSB, on 27 May 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

What if not only with a little bit of shake, they increase fall damage to legs (which they should do anyways). that will stop them from constantly maxing out a jump and landing to repeat it.

In TT, JJ's were to help cross small/short uneven/rough/otherwise impassable terrains or gain access to otherwise elevated location on the map. There was no Jump and shoot.

Just turn off the Mechs guns when they leave the ground. Fixed.

[shabowie]

General Taskeen, on 27 May 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

OP, take a look at this video. This is Jump Jet done right in a Mech Warrior game.



And yes they introduced "shake," its where MWO pulled that idea from. However, they are doing so without simply overhauling Jump Jets for mobility use.

That actually looks better than MWO in lots of ways. Makes me sad.

MaddMaxx, on 27 May 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

There was no Jump and shoot.

There was no move and shoot either. There was move (walk run or jump) then shoot. Yet firing penalties were given on shooting in the same turn because it was understood to be happening at the same time. This is a real time game, not turn based. Shooting while moving in all forms is necessary. Shooting while jumping should only be slightly more difficult than while running full speed if they are gonna stick to canon.

Edited by shabowie, 27 May 2013 - 01:11 PM.

[Appogee]

DV McKenna, on 27 May 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

.......that's not going to stop jump sniping...infact that kind of reminds me of watching Hawken mechs slide left and right...which will actually be more a problem

I agree. The 0.6 JJs look OP and have veered slightly into anime territory. Worrying!

[Asmudius Heng]

keith, on 27 May 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

but theres no maps that having JJs without being a popsniper doesn't really give u an advantage unless your a light. a med with JJ don't make me laugh. pointless. thats the hunchy, treb and blackjack. name any map where having JJs with help their cause to give u an advantage? very few spots can't not be reached without the help of JJs. heavys, u have praht and cata. JJJs could help them get to decent firing spots, but they would sky line SO bad would not even be funny. they would die to a sniper team down low. assault, the highlander will suffer same problems as heavys. if JJ shake is too bad they will kill JJs.

JJs have many uses. You can change direction with them quickly, you can mount sections when beinf chased to get away, or mount high obstacles to get to the attack quicker.

lso they havse stated that many sections mechs can walk on atm are not suppose to be that way and will be fixed so soon JJs may be able to get to places others cannot.

JJs gave advantage beyond jump sniping.

[SpartanFiredog317]

You are hurtling at least 30 tons of steel into the air, fighting the force of gravity.... D**** F****ing right there should be LOTS of screen shake. Like riding the Bloody space shuttle.... As a matter of fact, just moving should produce a LOT of cross hair bounce. ... Anybody actually tried to shoot from a moving vehicle before?????

[blinkin]

keith, on 27 May 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

but theres no maps that having JJs without being a popsniper doesn't really give u an advantage unless your a light. a med with JJ don't make me laugh. pointless. thats the hunchy, treb and blackjack. name any map where having JJs with help their cause to give u an advantage? very few spots can't not be reached without the help of JJs. heavys, u have praht and cata. JJJs could help them get to decent firing spots, but they would sky line SO bad would not even be funny. they would die to a sniper team down low. assault, the highlander will suffer same problems as heavys. if JJ shake is too bad they will kill JJs.

my catapult C4 with 4xSRM6 disagrees. JJ are an integral part of my movement. i go 86kph, but i can keep pace with mechs that go 150kph because jump jets allow me to hop over obstacles.

JJ also allow you to leap over an assault mech, turn around in mid air, fire a volley into his back, and run past him on the opposite side of his turn. JJ allow you to leap up walls and come at targets from completely unexpected directions. JJ allow you to hop over a building and immediately escape ALL fire from nearby enemies that were destroying you. JJ allow you to run straight at and leap over an otherwise un-passable target (like an assault mech in the side entrance of the ice cave on frozen, or a pair of mechs blocking one of the roads in river city). JJ allow you to attack targets from angles that are too high for them to aim at. JJ allow you to turn 180 degrees in your mech without ever needing to even slow down.

i have done ALL of these things with my 65 ton catapult C4.

jump jets are 90% of the reason why my catapult C4 has always been a ruthless predator, regardless of all of the SRM nerfs and buffs (the short time when they were little more than hover jets was awful and hurt the hello kitty far more than any nerf to weapons that came before or after).

your statement displays a severe lack of tactical understanding and imagination.

Edited by blinkin, 27 May 2013 - 07:39 PM.

[Asmudius Heng]

General Taskeen, on 27 May 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

OP, take a look at this video. This is Jump Jet done right in a Mech Warrior game.



And yes they introduced "shake," its where MWO pulled that idea from. However, they are doing so without simply overhauling Jump Jets for mobility use.

General Taskeen, on 27 May 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

OP, take a look at this video. This is Jump Jet done right in a Mech Warrior game.



And yes they introduced "shake," its where MWO pulled that idea from. However, they are doing so without simply overhauling Jump Jets for mobility use.

That video is freakin awesome. I would lvoe JJs like that in this game - as stated it looks like you can still poptart pretty well with it though, but greater shake all the way through the flight could help that. The accuracy and positioning and directional JJs work so well there, maybe a little bit too fast overall but the concept is great i with MWO did this to make JJs a fantastic manouvre option.

[MavRCK]

General Taskeen, on 27 May 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

OP, take a look at this video. This is Jump Jet done right in a Mech Warrior game.



And yes they introduced "shake," its where MWO pulled that idea from. However, they are doing so without simply overhauling Jump Jets for mobility use.

That is how JJs should work...

Skill...

Skill..

More skill...

I like it..

[Chavette]

DV McKenna, on 27 May 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

.......that's not going to stop jump sniping...infact that kind of reminds me of watching Hawken mechs slide left and right...which will actually be more a problem

Yea they went way overboard with the mid-air strafing, that's Japanese manga style mech action.

[Lykaon]

PEEFsmash, on 25 May 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

No...this would do the exact opposite. This would just be adding RNG to aim, and would lower the skill gap. Pinpoint aiming might be "dated" but non-pinpoint aiming is only "modern" for the sake of games catering to casuals and lowering the skill gap, and making someone elses "okay" aim as good as someone else's perfect aim. Pinpoint aim is the best thing this game has going for it, and strictly separates the good from the bad in sniping roles.

The down side is the potential to create a situation where sniping becomes the one best way to apply damage.

You want to use cover as best you can and you want to apply concentrated damage accuratley as quickly as possible.

So jump jetting PPC/Gauss alpha strikers are the evolution of combat tactics.

I am not so sure that improving brawling weapons like SRMs will alter this situation at all.We may just get closer ranged poptarts that have the capacity to redeploy from cover to cover rapidly.

Or the issues with needing to close in on jump snipers with effective brawlers becomes a close range fight with a nearly stripped medium mech that finally reach brawling range vs a fresh jump sniper build that still has no problems engaging targets in brawling ranges.The newly added seismic sensors favor the sniper more than the brawler in this situation furthering the effectivness gap between the two tactics.

How much of pinpoint aim is actually a skill?

Is it the capacity to have a larger monitor making the tiny targets bigger?
Is it having a superior connection by reducing latency and packet loss issues?
Is it having superior gaming rigs that render faster or expencive control options that are more accurate?
Is it having above average twitch reflexes?

There are I am sure some players who are accurate with smaller monitors and low end hardware but those players would be devestating with everything on my list.

Since monitors,internet connections and hardware/controls are clearly not skills yet all contribute to "skilled sniping" how much is a valid skill and is that "skill" more valid than a less twitchy player who has superior tactical/strategic ability?


The question is what skill is more valid? being twitchy or tactical? or is there more skill sets worth playing?

One of the features that sets the Mechwarrior games apart is the complexity of the combat.With out some concideration for how modern hardware,code and connections have effected the gameplay we may be faced with another FPS "BOOM HEADSHOT" game.

[DerSpecht]

Chavette, on 27 May 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

Yea they went way overboard with the mid-air strafing, that's Japanese manga style mech action.

It was possible in MW2 too ..so whats the big deal? I miss the fun i had while killing mechs by landing on their heads....