33 replies to this topic

[oldradagast]

Hi, all!

I've mostly been playing heavy and assault mechs after a few lousy experiences with the medium chassis. At the time, I didn't understand that I needed to upgrade the engine to get them to move fast enough to be more than a heavy mech with worse weapons and armor. After that upgrade (hunchback SP with 250 standard, for example), I'm starting to feel like I have a purpose in the battle vs. being a target.

That being said, where I really struggle is on larger and more open maps (mostly in Assault) where things turn into a sniper fight. I don't have the armor to take those type of focused hits nor the firepower to be a countersniper. Speed is life, sure, but where should I be going in a case like that when the rest of my team is hunkered down or slowly moving into position? I'm probably too slow to base cap, though I guess that's always an option in Assault; hiding behind the bigger mechs also works, though if there is a better option, I'd love to hear it

Just curious how more experienced medium pilots handle this situation without becoming the easiest target on the field.

Thanks!

[Wintersdark]

Theoretically, when you're dropping in a medium there's a medium on the opposing team to balance things out.

It's been my experience, and this is a very subjective opinion, that this rarely leads to fun play. Some people are dedicated Medium pilots and they have lots of fun with that - and all the power to them.

However, as you're often not going to be facing the opposing medium, generally speaking you just end up feeling... weak.

Most* mediums (barring the odd special variant and the cicada, which is essentially a light) are not faster than heavies, they're just smaller weaker... Not even smaller as they should be, generally speaking mediums are fairly large physically for whatever reason.

I never really enjoy my time in mediums as a result. Why play the smaller mech, when you can climb into a larger Heavy, move at the same speed but have more tonnage available for arms and armor?

To each their own, of course, but until such a time as actual tonnage limits are implemented, I can't see this changing.

[BoPop]

well, ya pose a good question. what I do: lot's of running around. just do lots of zigzagging through your team (don't bump them..). I like to weave in and out of my team, and stay moving, occasionally dipping further out for spotting purposes, in the hopes I get a couple missiles locked onto me to run and hide from. this helps to give away some LRM'ers at any rate. but I always weave back through my own herd. it's true on the larger maps, and alpine is really coming to mind here, you just have to run around and wait for the poop to hit the fan, wait for the battle to tighten up.

[mack sabbath]

After playing a Hunchback, I learned the role to be more of an in and out again striker. Take shots of opportunity after the big boys and the light speed mosquitos soften them up.

I, however, wasn't very good at that!

[Gigastrike]

The secrets to mediums are positioning and opportunity. Your speed allows you to either get into position to catch the enemy in a crossfire (if you have good range), or reach an ally's location to support them.

You're not a real damage dealer, and definitely not a scout, but your ability to support your team with good situational awareness is something that often goes underrated.

[Kenyon Burguess]

memorize the maps. the poptarts and LRM boats always go to the same places. you just need to take the paths with cover over to them and cut a hole in their rear armor, which isn't hard to do with a medium mech.

[Xiang]

oldradagast -

I started out my career as a hunch pilot, and love the chasis. You did the right thing in upping your engine, it was what you really needed. Make sure that you have the other upgrades you need/can fit on your chasis and then got to town with weapons and armor.

Remember that you are not a frontline brawler, you are more of a support mech. You dont lack much in firepower, but armor may be a little light, so use your speed. Skirmish and harass the enemy, try to flank and get behind when you can and support your brawlers.

On the big sniping maps, use the terrain to go the long way around. You may either be able to assist lights in a base cap, or you can sneak up on the enemy from behind and distract them so your big guys can push to a new/better location or get to brawling range. Remember the 5 D's - Duck, Dodge, Dip, Dive, Dodge......

Enjoy your time in the mediums, they are the unsung workhorses of the lance!

Xiang

[Wintersdark]

Of course... The Hunchback isn't any faster than a Catapult, and generally speaking will be slower than Dragons, both with more tonnage for weaponry at a comparable size. The Dragons and Catapults can fill the same roles, but can do so with substantially more armor and if the same weaponry, more ability to manage heat from them.

I'm not trying to disparage mediums - they should be the workhorses of the lance... but without tonnage or cost limitations, there is no real advantage in using one instead of an equally fast and armed heavy with more armor. I desperately hope PGI addresses this, or allows mediums to pack larger engines overall so they can actually have a speed advantage over the Heavies that are essentially eating their lunch.

[Raso]

A wolf pack of several mediums can be very scary. I use to run with a crew where we all had Hunchback 4SPs or Centurions and we would stick together (running around 90 kph each) and maul all the things. We had the speed and the firepower to out maneuver and scare the crap out of an entire team! ****** Ridge on arctic valley was a non issue when 4 mediums would run up from behind the enemy's front line and start ripping apart back armor.

Aside from that by yourself you are much more vulnerable than other mechs. You lack the speed of a light and your firepower is going to be a little bit lower than a heavy and your armor quite a bit lower. You are, by no means, a one man army. While you COULD go take out an Atlas in single combat using an HBK-4SP (post SRM nerf at least) but you lack the speed to really hug it's rear armor (you brake much slower than a light) the same way a Jenner or even Command could if that's your game. When it comes time to go toe to toe you are much more dependent on pilot skill and the use of terrain. This is an advantage, however, because you can often be underestimated. Whenever I face a Cent or Hunchback I never know if I'm up against a total bad *** or someone who wasted all their money on a a pimped out medium rather than an Atlas. If you are smart you learn to fear the former pretty quickly.

[oldradagast]

Thanks for the help, folks!

Part of the reason I'm trying to learn Mediums is that when tonnage limits hit, I see a future where everyone is trying to squeeze his assault mech (because why play anything else?!) into a lance, but without much success. If I can figure out how to use the mid-weight classes, I won't have to wait 10 minutes to drop because I'm the 300th Atlas/Stalker/Highlander in the queue. That, and I just wanted to mix it up a bit.

It is fun flying rings around bumbling Jagermechs - they turn like a barn - and I am trying to wolfpack with other mechs of similar speeds, which also seems to work. Still, so many folks don't seem to get their role in the game. Lost a match yesterday because I was the only player on my team capping... but we had 2 Ravens on our team who forgot all about that. Can't help but think if we'd stuck together, we would have wiped the floor with them. I guess it's easier to "follow the blob" and just go where everyone else is going, but that loses Conquest mode and, if you're not careful, is a good way to die in a lighter mech.

I really do want Medium's to be good again. They fill an interesting mix of roles and can do some of everything, but they are not well suited for the current metagame or for Assault, where you may as well bring nothing but assault mechs with a few fast ones to keep near the base in case of a cap.

Edited by oldradagast, 27 May 2013 - 05:24 AM.

[tdppdttdppdt]

A couple things I've learned piloting mediums:

Awareness. If I'm in a light with all 270m range weapons sitting under the radio tower on Alpine, there's no damage I can contribute until a brawl breaks out. So until I can contribute damage, I contribute awareness. Where is the enemy? Where are they headed? How many lights are on the opposing team? Call them out. If you notice a Spider and a Raven early, but later only a Spider, I'm either Raven-hunting, or making sure someone else is.

Positioning. As with any mech, cover is huge vs snipers, but with a medium, the size of cover you need is much smaller. Use that to your advantage. Also, related to the above, position yourself so as to prevent your line being flanked if enemies are unaccounted for.

Timing. As a medium, don't be the first one in. Once the brawl starts, take a deep breath, then jump in. Keep using your cover, and vary your exit timing and location. If you are paying attention to weapon timings, you can come out from cover and poke while his LLs are on cooldown. Thats not to say you still might take take an AC20 to the teeth, but thats better than an AC20 AND the LLs...

[Hex Pallett]

A few rules of thumb: keep moving, stay low, never wander alone for too long and engage occupied enemies only.

[thepartisan]

Medium mechs' play the most interesting role of all of the other classes possible. They work best in a support role when helping a Assault ( I had my best moments in my YLW tagging along with something in the Assault class and plinking everything he shoots at) who is going vanguard. The reasoning behind it is that most people seem to think that the assault deserves the most attention, so you can shoot at will most of the time. And if you do get shot at, you just weave in and out and keep moving in the general region of your battle-buddie. All it basically means is that mediums are best at line fighting (standing just behind the vanguard) and support (for vanguard and artillery). as long as you know that, the medium mechs will always be fun

[oldradagast]

Just a little update if folks are interested:

I rebought my old Hunchback-H (sold it months ago since it seemed I'd never figure out the role of mediums), and I'm having fun with that one, too. It's got a 225 Standard engine, 3 medium lasers, an AC10 and AMS. Double heat sinks and Endo, of course.

It's a bog-standard build, but it works pretty well. I get decent kills in it, though not staggering damage numbers, and I've found that many enemies tend to ignore me unless I go out of my way to anger them while they're looking at me. I'm not sure if it's the lack of huge cockpit shake from the AC/10 hits or the fact I'm piloting one of the "lesser" mechs, but I don't seem to register as a major threat (unless I'm one of the last ones left), which often gives me time to keep punching holes in a target while they are off dealing with the "real threats." It's funny when that leads to a kill.

It's an interesting perspective playing a medium - I'm sort of like the scavenger in the weeds, killing off the injured who separate from the pack, or being that extra pile of guns that nobody notices that helps out our assault mech kill their assault mech. It's very different from being the center of attention, for good or bad, and rather amusing.

[Buckminster]

I've just started into mediums (Centurions) after mastering through my Catapults and Eliteing my Ravens. I've really had a hard time coming to grips with the fact that my Cents are slower than my Cats (300XL on the Cats, with Speed Tweak) - part of me felt that a mech that had less weapons and armor should at least have some speed.

But what I have been finding is that by going with STD engines, I may be slow but I am stupidly durable. The zombie-ability of Centurions is well discussed, and there is something about running around in a mech that just takes a licking. Add to it that a lot of people ignore the mediums (especially if there are assaults around, or if I don't have any arms) and you can really contribute to a match long after you should have been dead.

[LoboSG]

My view on mediums is that they should be fast (at least over 80kph), and carry 1 heavy wep (ppc/ac10-20/gauss/2xsrm6, etc). The latter is the main diff between them and lights (except for spider-build which can carry 1 erppc), enabling them to make a significant difference to brawls. Mediums dart around 'fights' and do NOT go off capping (unless they have over 100kph).

Because of their faster speed, it is easy for them to swarm (means you aren't the only medium/light), esp when the enemy didn't follow the mwo rule 101 of "Stick together".

Personally, I feel hunchies are in a bit of weird spot because of this. They carry slightly more firepower (still less than a heavy) and generally aren't much faster. Centurions/Cicadas can easily reach over 100 with XL and speed tweak. BJ variants are also relatively fast, and have JJ for added mobility.

Edited by LoboSG, 09 June 2013 - 06:31 PM.

[Wildstreak]

As someone who has piloted Hunchbacks lately:

- I have found my Mediums (4H, 4P, 4SP) more useful in Conquest than Assault especially if I wind up on a team with no Lights. No Lights means the Mediums like me HAVE to cap due to being the fastest, not as fast as a Light but if you are decent-good, you bring more firepower/armor vs. Lights and some may run from you.

- At start, always hit TAB, check your team Mechs, find the Assaults, Heavies. If you think you sill fight, follow them from behind at roughly their speed. When the Sniping/Brawl starts, you have to pick your spots, a tough call, when you can use your combination of speed and firepower to go in, hit enemies, then duck out. Always try to be near someone when fighting.

- If you can fit the equipment, you can run BAP to help target and AMS to assist neutering LRMs.

- If not actively fighting, tryi watching enemy movements and relay info. teammates like to know if they are getting flanked or similar.

- If fighting solo, be annoying using your speed combined with timed precision shots, not spraying wildly. Many a time I have tied up enemies while moving about. If running across an open area, dodge side-to-side while moving, combined with your speed you tend to make people miss you more especially with Ballistics and PPCs.

oldradagast, on 27 May 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

Lost a match yesterday because I was the only player on my team capping... but we had 2 Ravens on our team who forgot all about that. Can't help but think if we'd stuck together, we would have wiped the floor with them.

- If you see someone on your team not doing what you think he should at start, such as the Ravens, use Team Chat to find out first.

- If the 4SP is your first Hunchback and you stick with it, go for the 4H next then pick one of the remaining three.

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

Well i have run the hunch 4g, 4j, 4h, 4p.(wont run 4sp because it is a disgrace to its name(DOESN'T HAVE THE HUNCH))
I have had a wonderful time in all those mechs and a wonderful time in my catapults and cataphracts.
The point of builds is customization. You can be a brawler or a sniper. You can be a hunter or one trick pony. I ran my 4p like this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c6c7a8b4f63768f with great effects. I can brawl and/or prey on light or meds. The swayback is a great mech for its weight because of damage output and speed with controllable heat and no ammo dependance(other than ams until LAMS comes out). I ran the 4g practically stock for a while (first mech) then realized hey you can toss in a gauss, dhs, endo, XL and be an amazingly mobile sniper and hunter. I ran the 4j with 2 srm6, 5 med lasers, ams for the longest time probably. It was very strong and quick. It could deliver a strong punch and receive one also. The 4h i ran with ac10, 5 med lasers, XL, ams, etc. It isn't as much of a sniper but more of an escort for assaults or heavies. You can stack your damage on top of theirs and crush any mech almost twice as fast. I am sorry for your bad experiences but once you start choosing your favorite play style you can mend your mech around it and have fun. I would recommend centurions if you don't want to be one thing. They have very good hard points and hit boxes. They also have that wonderful shield arm for when you brawl or are just hurting and need to get a few more shots in. - TANG
P.S. - Reply with your thoughts and i will return to discuss further if you like.

[oldradagast]

Okay, I'm sold - mediums may need a bit of tweaking to see more play, but they are not useless. Just don't be the first in the fight and make sure you're moving faster than the heavy mechs.

I just put up an over 600 point game in my Hunchback H. Dismantled a DDC Atlas by keeping behind him or moving faster than he could bring his torso gauss cannon to bear, and then wound a Highlander in a knot until somebody else could finish him off with LRM's. (Drat that posting screenshots requires me to make an account elsewhere to host them...)

Games like this are the rare exception, sure, but wow... it definitely can be done, even by a relative noob like me.

[jper4]

oldradagast, on 10 June 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

Okay, I'm sold - mediums may need a bit of tweaking to see more play, but they are not useless. Just don't be the first in the fight and make sure you're moving faster than the heavy mechs.

I just put up an over 600 point game in my Hunchback H. Dismantled a DDC Atlas by keeping behind him or moving faster than he could bring his torso gauss cannon to bear, and then wound a Highlander in a knot until somebody else could finish him off with LRM's. (Drat that posting screenshots requires me to make an account elsewhere to host them...)

Games like this are the rare exception, sure, but wow... it definitely can be done, even by a relative noob like me.

i had an instance like that a couple weeks ago. was in my BJ-1x in frozen city trying to flank and get behind the lrm boats. then i see an atlas with it's back to me standing still exchanging fire with a friendly atlas about 900m away just over the ridge. so i alpha it in the back and start to run until i notice it didn;t even flinch. so i got back behind it, another alpha- start to run, still no responce as it continued to fire at our side's atlas still closing in who can see exactly what i was doing (i made sure to use the enmy atlas as a shield vs FF). started chain firing to keep from overheating- cause the atlas HAS to notice me eventually and i tend to have the kind of luck to overheat in that exact moment. next thing i know i cool down enough for another alpha, fire and get a kill message as the enemy atlas keels over with our atlas about 400m away. the atlas pilot started cracking up in chat that the other guy never even looked my way the whole time i was wrecking his rear armors.

but alas most enemy pilots tend to be a bit more alert than that. i mean sure the atlas is the more obvious threat but after the first couple of times wouldn;t you think of looking behind you and see what's giving you those red flashes on your HUD on a regular basis?