53 replies to this topic

[Corbon Zackery]

But we were making strides to a balanced game and now its all fubar again.

Thanks PGI I play some more Star Trek Online and get back to you in a few month when you finish hopping around with a wound in your foot.

[Victor Morson]

armyof1, on 27 May 2013 - 05:00 AM, said:

I think the LBX is a perfect example of why people are complaining so much about the weapon balancing in this game. Months of thread after thread trying to tell the devs the most expensive weapon in-game is crap, and finally when they'll look at it, they decided to make it 20% less crap, which means it's still really bad. The balancing is slow as heck and when something finally happens it's more for show, kinda like tossing the dog a bone than well thought out changes that's been suggested time and time again. The people that handle weapon balancing is just doing such a surprisingly bad job it makes you wonder which game they're actually working on. Because at times it seems like they're basing their conclusions on an entirely different game, or on how bad weapons are still usable amongst players that can't aim at all.

What irks me is when you're talking basic adjustments (not new flight paths and stuff) - like damage, spread, crit chances - you're talking about what amounts to editing a database. In fact I bet most of us here could figure out how to tweak the numbers with absolutely no coding experience.

Why it takes them so long to make adjustments to weapons when for literally a couple hours a week they could be pushing small buffs/nerfs based on gathered statistics about how much guns are used for an every-other-week kind of patch would more than resolve all of our complaints.

We're not asking for radical resigns, seriously. Well, except with the Artillery/Airstrikes. Those are literally "Throw them out, start them over" levels of bad.

[Zerberus]

The Cheese, on 26 May 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

How will they know that things are out of balance if no one tells them?

There`s a distinct difference between telling someone something and throwing yourself on the ground like a child, screaming at the top of your lungs, bawling for hours on end, and continuing to do so even louder every time someone tells you to calm down and offers you an ice cream.

Take a wild guess which of those the forum is more akin to in the OPs and my opinion....

Edited by Zerberus, 28 May 2013 - 03:29 AM.

[DaZur]

Asmudius Heng, on 27 May 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

I work in product development and if i took what some of my customers said to me to heart I would be very upset.

However, some of them might be rude and make me want to punch them in the face - often times, they are not WRONG in what they say. You look at the product a little less emotionally and yes professionally and you balance what they say.

I hope they completely ignore those who post angry tirades mind you - but there are MANY people here who might get a little bit snarky at times but mostly put thier points very well - the developers should be looking at those people as a starting point especially when some of those posters have a lot of support.

As much as i hate the garbage that goes on in here sometimes I find it very hard to accept that the developers have such a thin skin they cannot take a little bit of flaming to sift into the real issues. I feel for them when people **** upon thier work which by and large is excellent on many fronts, but they must understand the average player ONLY cares about the fun they have in the game which comes down to the vague term of 'balance' - which will never be perfect for all but their idea of a polarised fanbase on balance is only going to lead to disaster.

On the contrary... I believe PGI has shown super-human restraint.

That said, as I iterated earlier... The devs used to be far more approachable and actively participated in playful banter and innocent rib-poking. Then one day someone posted an image depicting one of the devs being assaulted by the community (If I remember correctly I think this was during the throes of the first LRM fiasco) and this is when the community went down the toilet. After that... it became common practice to verbally abuse the devs, impugn their intelligence, work ethic, country origin and actively raised accusations of player-base contempt, being outright liars and shills for the almighty dollar.

While I appreciate that "we" the community are their customers and it's part and party for them to silently tolerate critique and criticism. There is a line that once crossed, sometimes it's difficult to maintain decorum.

IMHO there are a handful of members in this community that routinely cross that line and do so with absolute arrogance while hiding behind the anonymity of the internet...

I will admit sheepishly that there are times I witness community commentary that makes ME feel uncomfortable for the community because of the caustic and vitriolic nature of the attacks.

Edited by DaZur, 28 May 2013 - 06:06 AM.

[Demuder]

Game communities are multifaceted beasts. They are composed of the most passionate players - which if we believe internet statistics are not a huge percentage of the playerbase to begin with - and therein are represented all sorts of players: the ones that are passionate about the game, the ones that are passionate about their performance in the game, the ones that are passionate about very specific types of gameplay, the ones that are passionate about the metagaming, etc etc.

Since they are internet communities as well, it is obligatory that everyone and their grandmother have their own special opinion. Sometimes those opinions are gold, sometimes they are, well, you know. I believe that every dev team that respects themselves must plod through and take stock of those opinions, however not necessarily acknowledging that fact. After sorting through the drama and trolling, every dev will find something in there that never crossed their minds and fixes a problem.

So, no, these forums are spot on. The trolls and drama queens will come and go, the general sentiments will shift from excitement to rage, but that is just the internet process.

[Budor]

NO U!

Because meanwhile at the PGI balance department:

[Nicholas Carlyle]

dimstog, on 28 May 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

Game communities are multifaceted beasts. They are composed of the most passionate players - which if we believe internet statistics are not a huge percentage of the playerbase to begin with - and therein are represented all sorts of players: the ones that are passionate about the game, the ones that are passionate about their performance in the game, the ones that are passionate about very specific types of gameplay, the ones that are passionate about the metagaming, etc etc.

Since they are internet communities as well, it is obligatory that everyone and their grandmother have their own special opinion. Sometimes those opinions are gold, sometimes they are, well, you know. I believe that every dev team that respects themselves must plod through and take stock of those opinions, however not necessarily acknowledging that fact. After sorting through the drama and trolling, every dev will find something in there that never crossed their minds and fixes a problem.

So, no, these forums are spot on. The trolls and drama queens will come and go, the general sentiments will shift from excitement to rage, but that is just the internet process.

Mechwarrior and Battletech are a special beast in my opinion.

It's spanned so long, and over so many different facets (TT/RPG/Novels/Single Player Games/Multi Player games) that I think the vast majority of the people playing have some sort attachment to this game due to it's IP.

And contrary to PGI, I think it's created a situation where the boards ARE fairly representative of the player base as a whole.

We are all looking for that Battletech/Mechwarrior experience.

[Joseph Mallan]

DaZur, on 28 May 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

On the contrary... I believe PGI has shown super-human restraint.

That said, as I iterated earlier... The devs used to be far more approachable and actively participated in playful banter and innocent rib-poking. Then one day someone posted an image depicting one of the devs being assaulted by the community (If I remember correctly I think this was during the throes of the first LRM fiasco) and this is when the community went down the toilet. After that... it became common practice to verbally abuse the devs, impugn their intelligence, work ethic, country origin and actively raised accusations of player-base contempt, being outright liars and shills for the almighty dollar.

While I appreciate that "we" the community are their customers and it's part and party for them to silently tolerate critique and criticism. There is a line that once crossed, sometimes it's difficult to maintain decorum.

IMHO there are a handful of members in this community that routinely cross that line and do so with absolute arrogance while hiding behind the anonymity of the internet...

I will admit sheepishly that there are times I witness community commentary that makes ME feel uncomfortable for the community because of the caustic and vitriolic nature of the attacks.

This happens in a lot of communities. I have seen DEVs happily chiming in on the forums til some slob with his bonnet in a twist spouts off insulting the work and family of the DEV and that ends the flow of information and discussion. I have said it a few times on here we are our own biggest problem. You want Balance? Make LRM5, Medium Laser, AC5 and SRM2 comparable in damage ad you will have balanced those weapons. Now do the sale for 10,15 & 20 point weapons and look, the game is balanced.

[sj mausgmr]

Victor Morson, on 28 May 2013 - 02:19 AM, said:

What irks me is when you're talking basic adjustments (not new flight paths and stuff) - like damage, spread, crit chances - you're talking about what amounts to editing a database. In fact I bet most of us here could figure out how to tweak the numbers with absolutely no coding experience.

Why it takes them so long to make adjustments to weapons when for literally a couple hours a week they could be pushing small buffs/nerfs based on gathered statistics about how much guns are used for an every-other-week kind of patch would more than resolve all of our complaints.

If it's similar to cryengine 2, which it will be, cryengine 3 will use simple xml edits for weapon tweaking, which as described, is little more than spreadsheet editing that anyone with half a brain can do. When I used to weapon balance for MWLL I would frequently edit xml's and run private servers to test the feel of the changes I made before focus group testing them in house. Once these changes were generally accepted, they went out to the public, and were well received.

It basically all comes down to having a clue about what your playerbase actually needs, not necessarily what they're all blabbering about on the forums, whilst maintaining an overall birds eye view on each particular component and how they relate to each other in terms of use, advantages and disadvantages.

For example, there's nobody at PGI right now who will have a clue about what pulse lasers actually provide the player in comparison to medium lasers. I on the other hand, would be able to fix it, with a focus on the weapon system to perform more capably than both small and medium laser in close range environments, through ensuring the accuracy benefit of the weapon was fully reflected (lower weapon fire duration to 0.35-0.5 seconds) and upscaling the damage to make it more comparable to a medium laser. This gives you a solid 1 ton option for very close range engagements, which with mechs focused on combat at <90 m, is a potential option.

Personally though, I would see the implementation of hardpoint sizes to ensure the small pulse truly had worth for 1 ton over a medium laser, which is always going to be a much more effective weapon system due to its adaptability and function for its weight.

The fact we have such kneejerk changes with instant backlash from the community tells me they just aren't doing this, and are perhaps relying on some kind of wonky *** scoring system that doesn't actually make any sense when converted into the principles of the gameplay.

[Av4tar]

Discussion about weapons is cool, ppl shoul stop complaining and tell pgi to nerf weapons. Think more about rebalancing, what would happens if one weapon get changed, what would happens to the game play if a component get changed. Not omg ppl use this weapon all the time i alway die pls nerf it. Thats FTL.

[Corvus Antaka]

please stop complaining.

on the internet?

not sure if trolling

[Soy]

PanzerMagier, on 27 May 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

you know what? This is life.