27 replies to this topic

[HRR Insanity]

In the TT game, high-damage, ammunition based weapons (missiles, ACs, etc) were balanced by largely two features... their limited # of shots and the risks inherent with carrying large chunks of explosives within your 'Mech.

Two questions for the devs:

1) Will there be ammunition explosions caused by heat? In the TT game, there were certain thresholds of heat that you had to 'roll to avoid an ammo explosion'... Is this in the game? If so, will it be a cumulative risk (the longer the heat is over a threshold, the more likely something will cook off) or a low continuous risk (always the same risk for a given heat level). I'm more inclined to make it a cumulative risk so as to encourage people to manage their heat...

2) Will you be able to 'dump' ammo? Often times in the TT game, you may suffer a critical hit to an ammunition based weapon system and be stuck with a ton of explosives... you were allowed to dump ammunition in the TT game to reduce your chances of having an ammunition-based disaster as the game progressed. Especially if you risk a heat-related ammo incident.

Thanks,
Insanity

[Kobold]

They have mentioned having ammo get hit for criticals, I don't think I've seen ammo cook offs from heat mentioned anywhere. Personally I suspect that ammo-based weapons will actually be at a disadvantage already due to the increased armor values intended to prolong battles. I think leaving out ammo cook offs is probably no big deal.

[Grokmoo]

(1) is already confirmed to be in.

(2) I believe is something they said they would look at. I wouldn't expect to see it at launch, though.

[BlackMoore]

They have mentioned ammo explosions from damage, but not heat. I don't think it a good idea for a computer game anyway. In a TT game you are playing at a different pace as well as other factors and I just don't think it is a game mechanic that would translate well to an online game. I think there will be plenty of other things that will kill me quick enough.

[HRR Insanity]

Grokmoo, on 06 June 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

(1) is already confirmed to be in.

Any reference for this statement? I searched around and was unable to find anything in the Dev Blogs or on the forums...

Quote

(2) I believe is something they said they would look at. I wouldn't expect to see it at launch, though.

If it's not in at launch, then ammo weapons are going to be a serious liability...

Insanity

[PANZERBUNNY]

Ya with the increased armour they need to raise damage (which makes no sense) so throwing ballistic weapons a bone may be a good peice of faith to avoid whining when the game begins.

Shutting down and slowing down should be the only real draw backs of heat for this game.

Edited by PANZERBUNNY, 06 June 2012 - 10:14 AM.

[Meth0s]

I'm pretty sure I've heard talk from a dev on ammo explosions, because they've talked about having CASE as an add-on.

[TheRulesLawyer]

1) Ammo explosion are in. Heat based ones too.
2) Haven't heard about an active dump system

[akaChrisHimself]

HRR Insanity, on 06 June 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

Any reference for this statement? I searched around and was unable to find anything in the Dev Blogs or on the forums... If it's not in at launch, then ammo weapons are going to be a serious liability... Insanity

MechWarrior Online - MechLab Developer Breakdown

http://mwomercs.com/...deo/dPoqjslGcO0

2:55 mark talks about crit ammo...

[Kobold]

HRR Insanity, on 06 June 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

If it's not in at launch, then ammo weapons are going to be a serious liability...

I don't expect there to be TACs (Through Armor Criticals) so the best solution would probably just to move your ammo to places where, if all the armor is gone and you're getting hit there, you will die regardless.

In TT is is generally a terrible idea to have your ammo in your Center Torso, for instance, since destroying your center torso means the mech cannot be salvaged. In this case though, you don't have to worry about that in MWO. Stack your ammo in CT and Head, since at the point you're taking criticals in either of those spots, you are likely almost dead regardless.

[PANZERBUNNY]

TheRulesLawyer, on 06 June 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

1) Ammo explosion are in. Heat based ones too.
2) Haven't heard about an active dump system

If they keep all the negatives in, they need to keep dump in or people will simply ignore MG's.....which they should do anyways unless they REALLY love MG"s and fit them with CASE.

[CaveMan]

Here's the thing about ammo-based weapons and doubling the armor values.

Standard armor in TT gives you 16 points of armor per ton. Double that, and it's 32 points/ton (up to 38 with Clan ferro-fibrous).

One ton of autocannon ammuniton = 100 points of damage. SRM ammo, 200. LRM and Gauss ammo, 120. Machine gun ammo, 400.

You can increase your 'Mech's total damage capacity way, way faster than its ability to survive hits. In TT play, an average pilot's chances of hitting are usually around 50/50. In a realtime game the hit percentages are much higher, I would estimate 75%. Ammo-based weapons aren't going to be toothless by any means.

[HRR Insanity]

BaneReIIiK, on 06 June 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

MechWarrior Online - MechLab Developer Breakdown

http://mwomercs.com/...deo/dPoqjslGcO0

2:55 mark talks about crit ammo...

Critical hits to ammo from opposing 'Mechs is very different than a heat related ammo explosion. Can you confirm that heat related ammo explosions are in the game?

Insanity

[Kobold]

PANZERBUNNY, on 06 June 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

If they keep all the negatives in, they need to keep dump in or people will simply ignore MG's.....which they should do anyways unless they REALLY love MG"s and fit them with CASE.

Actually this one I'm going to disagree with you, if only because MGs as crit-seekers would probably be even better in a real-time setting than in tabletop turn based. Instead of firing it once every time you fire your large laser, you can have it constantly chattering away generating no heat.

Considering how many stock level 1 IS mechs run hot in TT, it may be completely reasonable to drop a couple MLs off a Swayback to add two MGs and a ton of ammo. Just store the ammo in your head. If you're getting crits to the head, you have bigger problems to worry about than having your ammo get hit.

[Murphy7]

Kobold, on 06 June 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

In TT is is generally a terrible idea to have your ammo in your Center Torso, for instance, since destroying your center torso means the mech cannot be salvaged. In this case though, you don't have to worry about that in MWO. Stack your ammo in CT and Head, since at the point you're taking criticals in either of those spots, you are likely almost dead regardless.

It also seems like it could have some affect on the morale of your pilots, given those design specifcations.

"Just keep fighting, we've got your express sled to hell prepared for you."

[Woodstock]

How about this question:

As they have doubled the armour and internal structure of mechs ... will they also double the amount of ammo per ton of weapons?

Otherwise Energy weapons will have a unbalanced edge.

[Solis Obscuri]

Armor isn't necessarily doubled, apparently it's still being tweaked.

As for ammo quantities, same as TT - but given that player accuracy tends to be a lot better than dice rolls, that apparently hasn't been a significant problem in playtesting.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Quote

(similar to ammunition explosions) “Will there be similar effects for other equipment, such as your engine shielding being damaged and producing more waste heat as the internal structure in your torso takes damage?” –colodie

[DAVID] Yep, all the weapons and equipment on board your ’Mech are able to take damage, and each will produce different gameplay effects. Damaged engines will produce heat, damaged weapons will stop working (and some of them explode), damaged heat sinks impair your cooling, etc.

http://mwomercs.com/...5-mech-warfare/

Where is the doubled armor rumor coming from? In the Mechlab area the devs have stated:

Quote

How is Armour going to be handled?

The way armour is being treated in MechWarrior Online is very similar to how it’s done in the tabletop game. That is, for every one ton of standard armour, the chassis is given 16 points of armor. These 16 points can be assigned to the various sections of a BattleMech. If the player purchases 8 tons of armor for their BattleMech, they can assign 128 armour points throughout.

An thats how at least I remember armor in TT

[Woodstock]

Solis Obscuri, on 06 June 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

Armor isn't necessarily doubled, apparently it's still being tweaked.

As for ammo quantities, same as TT - but given that player accuracy tends to be a lot better than dice rolls, that apparently hasn't been a significant problem in playtesting.

Hmmm I hadn't considered the accuracy thing ... That could be the answer I guess. This would put more emphasis on player skill as Paul (dev) suggested.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

They did balance the weapons, they added a possible knockdown effect to AC and missle attacks. They made lasers a "stream" that does DOT. I love it and think this is the best answer to laser boating I've every heard. Its simple and makes all weapon systems more viable and used together in a team situation, fantastic! Oh and you can add ammo via the mech lab.