74 replies to this topic

[SirLANsalot]

SRM's are made, and ment to be, armor stripping weapons but not very good at much else. Hence in CB in the day you couldn't get a crti with an SRM if your life depended on it, even with twin SRM4's. You could core out a mech very quickly, but you woun't be able to KILL the mech with just SRM's. Now days they can do both, and really, they shouldn't.

The combo in mind that needs to happen for SRM's, is this.

Use SRM to strip mech of armor, use MG's to crit out the gooey core = profit.
Hence SRM's ALONE should suck, and not even be viable, you can do it, but you wont get any, or barely any, kills. So a splat cat, well is screwed, and thats the point. The CTF-A1 is ment to be an LRM boat, not a brawler at all and is a mech made for grouping with, if found alone it should DIE. This applies to all other mechs as well, and SRM's should be used for the purpose of pulling off armor, thus allowing you to use other guns, like MG's/Pulse Lasers to crit out and kill the rest of the mech.


Disclaimer: I am not an Anti-A1 pilot, but I am aginst the improper use of mech, I also think the A1 is a POS mech anyways and the C4 is a far better mech because it can actually defend itself without, just more missiles.

[InRev]

SirLANsalot, on 27 May 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

SRM's are made, and ment to be, armor stripping weapons but not very good at much else. Hence in CB in the day you couldn't get a crti with an SRM if your life depended on it, even with twin SRM4's. You could core out a mech very quickly, but you woun't be able to KILL the mech with just SRM's. Now days they can do both, and really, they shouldn't.

The combo in mind that needs to happen for SRM's, is this.

Use SRM to strip mech of armor, use MG's to crit out the gooey core = profit.
Hence SRM's ALONE should suck, and not even be viable, you can do it, but you wont get any, or barely any, kills. So a splat cat, well is screwed, and thats the point. The CTF-A1 is ment to be an LRM boat, not a brawler at all and is a mech made for grouping with, if found alone it should DIE. This applies to all other mechs as well, and SRM's should be used for the purpose of pulling off armor, thus allowing you to use other guns, like MG's/Pulse Lasers to crit out and kill the rest of the mech.


Disclaimer: I am not an Anti-A1 pilot, but I am aginst the improper use of mech, I also think the A1 is a POS mech anyways and the C4 is a far better mech because it can actually defend itself without, just more missiles.

Forgive me for picking on you but this is just wrong.

First: where does this idea even come from? It's certainly not present in TT and I don't remember the devs saying that SRMs shouldn't do internal damage, so I'm at a loss as to the source of this idea of what SRMs are "meant to be".

Secondly: The idea that SRMs MUST be paired with MGs renders any mech that doesn't have missiles AND ballistics invalid,

Thirdly, and this is important: Critting doesn't kill a mech, to begin with. Engine crits aren't represented in MWO. Only destroying the section containing an engine does, and MGs do this at the same rate that they destroy armor: .8 dps.

So, I'm sorry for picking your post apart but I'm genuinely flummoxed by what you said and how it relates to the game as it is.

[Theodor Kling]

The new spread killed my SRM Commando. Now it´s a streak Commando, since that can now do more damage with fewer missiles. Seriously, without artemis SRMs seem to hit with about 1/5 to 1/10 of the missiles, with the center of the spread being on targe, below 100m. Combine that with the bad hit registration ( usually the amount of explosions I saw on the enemy suggestd that I should have done about twiceasmuchdmg as I actually did), and SRMs become a no go

[Kiiyor]

InRev, on 27 May 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

More like a garden hose set to "mist".

Except less like this:



And more like THIS:



Only it feels like this:

[Mr 144]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 27 May 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

I've got Artemis IV on my D-DC's triple SRM6s and it seems to do the job pretty well. I can get most of my spread on-target even at pretty long range (for SRMs at least). It's mostly the lack of punch that keeps me from driving that particular mech very much right now. I'm hoping that the splash damage and Streak tracking issues get resolved sooner rather than later so PGI can give SRMs their oomph back.

Excellent post, but i wanna 2nd this part. 3xASRM6+ammo is approx equal tonnage and crit space as the AC/20...and way more heat, not to mention 3 hardpoints. What we had for almost a year (45 damage) 'felt' right. Everyone still targeted the RT first, correctly knowing the AC/20 pinpoint was the worse threat, but the SRM rack was no slouch either. Now, none of my mechs run SRMs...I've stat tracked it every patch, and Streaks are simply superior to SRM6s in every way....and that just ain't right. Mess with spread...mess with artemis...mess with splash...but at least give me the option of 'adapting' by giving me my base damge back. No one in there right mind thinks 3xASRM6s are > a single AC/20...even though they should be comparable. Those two weapon systems should be complimentary to each other...not identical, but useful in a brawler function.

Mr 144

[BlackDrakon]

I started a topic like this at Patch Feedback, since I thought that's where it should have be. Now I found this topic and I want to share my feelings with u http://mwomercs.com/...-is-about-lrms/

So, SRM's are the brawler/skirmisher missile option, you have them equip to core/kill any enemy in a 270 meter radius, they have been nerfed like 3 times since I started playing around August 2012.

I'm a Brawler/Skirmisher, I use them on all my brawlers, and skirmishers, because they gave u that punch u needed to be feared.

I ran the last tournament with a CN9-A with 2 ML and 3 SRM6 with Artemis, its a monster build, a mini brawler if u wanna refer to him like it. A new tournament is coming, and SRM's are broken.

Before, you could use them (even with the 2nd nerf) at CQB, 50 meters even huggin and the damage was accurate enough to core/kill a mech, if someone see u in the field with a STK-5M with 5 ML and 5 SRM6's be sure you will be the main target, if they let u alone, you will get at least 600+ damage and 3 kills.

Now, they are just there to fill the hit points, my Atlas was a feared mech, right now, Christ forgive me, had to switch to 3 streaks for the lack of damage and broken trajectory of them.

Everybody talks and rages about LRM's, and PGI ran to fix them, but what about SRM'S??!?!?

Are they so hated that nobody talks for them? cmon!!!

SRM's are the option for brawlers and skirmishers, and right now, we dont have an option for missiles, streaks are a poor option for us, give us back our SRM'S!! increase their damage at least if you are not fixing this poor trajectory they have, I shot an atlas yesterday with my 5M at 75 meters, and the spread was so bad, that I hit all of his body, it was all yellow not even cored, its ridiculus when u shoot 5 SRM6 = 30 missiles point blank into a mech.

My banner brothers use CN9-D's with SRM's, they had to switch to lights or poptars because they cant kill enemy lights anymore with them, and believe me, they are great at it.

So plz, give us back our SRM'S, they are there for us, the brawlers and skirmishers of mechwarrior.

SRM's had an incredible nerf, and Im completly sure about it, my STK-5M is my banner mech, 70 alpha (it was 100 alpha before the last nerf) and I have used it in 269 matches with a win/loss ratio of 3.75 and a K/D ratio of 3.93, killing 358 mechs and died 91 times.

Damage dealt with that mech is 225,991 and I have an SRM6 accuracy of 61.28% with 224,409 damage done.

Believe me, im a SRM6's user and they are broken.

[Curccu]

PanchoTortilla, on 27 May 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

Why not? Dud warheads would make the game more realistic. The TT game didn't have them, but then again TT gauss rifles had a minimum range and noooooo it can't have them in MWO because it wouldn't be realistic. So in the interest of realism dud warheads and exploded ordnance left over from the previous battle on the map should be added.

They'd be easy to code too. PGI already has most of it implemented with the bad hit detection. Just call those visible hits that do no dmg duds. And randomly scatter unexploded but live ordnance about the battlefield for some unlucky bastage to walk over.

We could also have any weapon have ricocheting hits that actually don't do ****

[SirLANsalot]

InRev, on 27 May 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

Forgive me for picking on you but this is just wrong.

First: where does this idea even come from? It's certainly not present in TT and I don't remember the devs saying that SRMs shouldn't do internal damage, so I'm at a loss as to the source of this idea of what SRMs are "meant to be".

Secondly: The idea that SRMs MUST be paired with MGs renders any mech that doesn't have missiles AND ballistics invalid,

Missiles and Energy, aka PULSE lasers crit a fair amount due to there "pulses".

InRev, on 27 May 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

Thirdly, and this is important: Critting doesn't kill a mech, to begin with. Engine crits aren't represented in MWO. Only destroying the section containing an engine does, and MGs do this at the same rate that they destroy armor: .8 dps.

MG's kill quite well now when hitting NON armored areas. I have gotten a fair number of kills this way with a 3MG HBK-4G. Fun times.

[Sephlock]

"Are they so hated that nobody talks for them? cmon!!!"

No, its just that PGI reacts LIKE LIGHTNING to QQ but not to reason. It just gets drowned out.

[Mr 144]

Sephlock, on 27 May 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

"Are they so hated that nobody talks for them? cmon!!!"

No, its just that PGI reacts LIKE LIGHTNING to QQ but not to reason. It just gets drowned out.

If they reacted to QQ like lightning, they'd be listening to me and there would be no problem

Mr 144

[and zero]

Rhent, on 27 May 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

its an insult to all balance devs to even call them that. A more appropriate term is Monkeys.

Hey now, that is unfair. A monkey would probably do a much better job. Many of the intelligent, competitive player base have been laying out numerous and detailed game balance fixes for over 6 months and pgi still cant even come close to getting it right/ignores major issues for months with this "working as intended" crap. No, if you gave a monkey detailed guidance it would eventually complete the task. And it would do so without continually insulting your intelligence with half *** excuses/explanations.

My clan TS used to have multiple 4 or 8 man groups running each evening. Now there is rarely more than a handfull on. I wonder why?

Sadness.

[jeffsw6]

HarmAssassin, on 27 May 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

By Jeffsw6's logic, since there is no aiming for any weapon in TT, then all weapons in the game should have the current spread of the broken SRMs.... because you couldn't aim those before either.

If you wanted to make the game more like TT, sure. That's not what we should want. If that's how MW:O worked imagine how hard it would be to kill an Atlas or Stalker, given their huge armor values, and the fact that you would be randomly hitting every section including arms and legs. Even Awesome's would suddenly be a very deadly chassis, which today, they aren't.

SRMs should have a smaller spread at short range. I think the projectiles should be faster, too.

SirLANsalot, on 27 May 2013 - 11:46 PM, said:

Missiles and Energy, aka PULSE lasers crit a fair amount due to there "pulses".

MG's kill quite well now when hitting NON armored areas. I have gotten a fair number of kills this way with a 3MG HBK-4G. Fun times.

You don't know what you are talking about. Stop telling people this and learn how crits work!

Pulse Lasers do damage in a large number of small units ("quantums") just like regular lasers. LPL and MPL, for example, shoot about 30 tiny quantums of damage, each one with a separate crit calculation. LL and ML are about 40 quantums.

[OneEyed Jack]

jeffsw6, on 28 May 2013 - 01:21 AM, said:

Pulse Lasers do damage in a large number of small units ("quantums") just like regular lasers. LPL and MPL, for example, shoot about 30 tiny quantums of damage, each one with a separate crit calculation. LL and ML are about 40 quantums.

I've always been under the impression that all lasers did 10 ticks, though I'm not sure at this point where I got that from.

[Kaldor]

jeffsw6, on 27 May 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

People need to learn how the critical hit system in the game works. You are right, crit-seeking is crap, and it's because PGI themselves don't understand how their own crit system functions in actual game-play.

Know what a crit-seeking weapon is? PPC. Gauss Rifle. AC/20. AC/10. Why? Because these four weapons deliver the highest instant damage in the game which is processed as a single quantum of damage. If those shots crit, they crit for 100% of the damage that weapon is landing. In optimal range, that means a weapon, heat sink, etc. will explode; because almost every piece of equipment has <= 10 HP.

Still confused? Think of it this way. When you get hit with an AC/10, PPC, AC/20, etc. you are more likely to have one of your weapons blown up, than if you were struck by equal amount of damage from large lasers or any other armaments.

A crit-seeking weapon is NOT one that deals damage in lots and lots of little bits. That's how MG, SRM, all lasers except for PPC, and LRMs work -- lots and lots of little damage quantums, each one might crit or might not; and if they do, will get assigned to different equipment anyway.

By the time you managed to crit any weapons off most mechs with SRM6s, you would have blown that mech up long ago.


They have social media snowflakes and those guys need to do something to earn their pay. They probably also think it's helping them reach a wider audience that may start playing MW:O when they "release" it. People on the forums already play the game, or they tried it and quit. They aren't reaching any potential new players by posting on their own forums.


You're not supposed to be able to aim, either! This is not ******* TT and what SRMs do in TT is not necessarily what they should do in a FPS game where it is possible to aim 6 ******* PPCs at the opponent's CT and push fire, and have all 6 land there.

I am so sick of you TT long-beards saying oh but it works this way on a board game with dice!!! OF COURSE IT WORKS IN TT THERE ISN'T ANY AIMING. YOU ROLL DICE TO FIND OUT WHERE **** HITS! G E T A C L U E.

^^ This

Right now SRMS are the equivalent of Nerf darts....

Can someone make a meme of a Cat with 2 Nerf guns for weapons? Just a thought....

SRMS need to set at 2 damage and fix the spread so it increases as they go further unless you are using Artemis. SSRMs are about right where they are at 1.5 damage but need hit locations slightly more randomized. LRMs seem pretty decent as well but Id like to see them at 1 damage.

[Zyllos]

armyof1, on 27 May 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Let's once and for all drop the whole crit seeking weapon concept, because it's so much crap. It does not help when weapons that spread their hitting area considerably are crit seeking, because you have pinpoint weapons that can focus firing on specific parts on mechs and with enough damage that you don't even need the whole crit concept, you just put damage fast and take out that whole mech part and thus all equipment there. And no removing pinpoint accuracy is stupid, you want random hits with cone of fire there are plenty of games out there that do that crap. What's the point of doing that anyway, to save the crit system? Just forget about giving weapons more crit since doing more damage will beat higher crit anyway, just make weapons like LBX and SRMS that have spread damage do more total damage since it's spread out while pinpoint damage weapons do less but focused damage. Then we have a level playing ground, how hard can that be?

You kinda answered the reason why critical seeking weapons don't work...pin point convergence.

And the fact that the spread weapons deal less damage, thus require many multiple critical hits to kill components.