24 replies to this topic

[scJazz]

OneEyed Jack, on 28 May 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

Possible? Probably. Balanced? No

The mechs that have missile bay doors give up something to use them. Applying the same thing to other mechs with no downside would be exactly the opposite of balance.

I understand what your saying but I do not think it necessarily applies. Mustrum began this thread as a brainstorm. Ideas tossed around where changing the "hitbox", etc. All I'm suggesting is that doing so would be a PITA requiring time and effort from the team that designs new mechs and maps and stuff. Perhaps they should go back and do this work. But now might not be the best time for it. Instead they could grab an intern and tell him to stick these thingies on these locations on these mechs and release it in the next patch cycle.

If it works badly, remove them in the next cycle. If it works sorta OK, leave it alone for now and revisit later. If it ends up working really well, have the coders modify the door object to allow for various levels of resistance. Then get aforementioned intern to strap on corrected versions where applicable.

Final point and here is the important bit... think of this idea as less about doors and more about "flak jacket".

[scJazz]

MaddMaxx, on 28 May 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

I can't see having the "gimped" mechs having damage reduction going anywhere as what it really equates to is more armor in those areas. No one will give a **** about your supposed "gimped" mech but they will be very dissatisfied that their "non-gimped" Mech does not have that same amount of armor.

What with all the talk about Cone of Fire and Spreading of Damage, why not use the Hit Boxes to do that spread.

Example:

I hit the CT 2 times, it takes that damage, I, someone, hit that same CT a 3rd consecutive time, well 50% of that damage value simply gets shifted over to the Left or Right Torso. Same for the other sections. All damage is always applied, so no one gets cheated, and everyone has the same armor levels.

Why would they be upset? Not saying people wouldn't because this is the interwebz and a Spider pilot is going to be pissed off no matter what because they enjoy pwning Dragons or some such. But the big floppy ears on my mewkitten CPLT-A1 already have the doors and I don't hear anyone complaining about it.

Your larger point is quite valid and important. The real problem is not that the hitbox is gigantic on these designs. Rather, that the basic TT weapons, mech design rules, etc translate very poorly into an FPS with ZERO convergence alphas. The CT should only be hit by 1 of the 6 PPCs on a Stalker when he fires the Alpha, on average, not every single one.

I do not want to derail this thread at all. But honestly, the LT/CT/RT mechanic from TT worked perfectly well and was in fact a good choice when weapons hit using 2d6. The same mechanic is blatantly stupid in an FPS with ZERO Convergence. It might **** off every single BattleTech enthusiast but honestly... right now... given CrysisEngine limitations... MWO would be better off with one gigantic torso hit box whose armor is equal to both STs and CT.

I know... heresy! Seriously, I know... I have all the 1st Edition everything up to FASAs sale to MS downstairs. Please don't flame me for the above paragraph... brainstorming thread!

[keith]

go mektek route, MORE special areas:P but really most hitboxes on mechs suck, only good one is cent. that is because of how arms are placed and ct is right sized and so are LT and RT. everything is just right on the mech model.

[MustrumRidcully]

scJazz, on 28 May 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

Why would they be upset? Not saying people wouldn't because this is the interwebz and a Spider pilot is going to be pissed off no matter what because they enjoy pwning Dragons or some such. But the big floppy ears on my mewkitten CPLT-A1 already have the doors and I don't hear anyone complaining about it.

Your larger point is quite valid and important. The real problem is not that the hitbox is gigantic on these designs. Rather, that the basic TT weapons, mech design rules, etc translate very poorly into an FPS with ZERO convergence alphas. The CT should only be hit by 1 of the 6 PPCs on a Stalker when he fires the Alpha, on average, not every single one.

I do not want to derail this thread at all. But honestly, the LT/CT/RT mechanic from TT worked perfectly well and was in fact a good choice when weapons hit using 2d6. The same mechanic is blatantly stupid in an FPS with ZERO Convergence. It might **** off every single BattleTech enthusiast but honestly... right now... given CrysisEngine limitations... MWO would be better off with one gigantic torso hit box whose armor is equal to both STs and CT.

I know... heresy! Seriously, I know... I have all the 1st Edition everything up to FASAs sale to MS downstairs. Please don't flame me for the above paragraph... brainstorming thread!

That's an interesting idea. It won't happen, I am afraid, since too much of the torso hit location and the mech build mechanics are interrelated. IT would probably something to be considered in a new game perhaps. If you really want convergence and not bother players with firing each weapon seperately...

[Fooooo]

TexAss, on 28 May 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

Where the damage texture gets applied doesn't play any role when it comes to hitboxes, because they come after the hitbox check.

Im not talking about the damage texture that gets displayed when a weapon hits something. Thats just a visual effect, nothing to do with how the game accounts for hits.

What I meant by the textures is, when they create the mechs model, that on the model that is used as the "hit-mesh" (hitbox) I think they can paint textures for different locations, instead of seperating the parts of the model and naming them seperately....at least I think thats how cryengine works from importing my own tanks etc in......


IE.

Red = CT
Blue = RT
Green = LEGS

If they paint green on this "hit-mesh" all over the mech, then nomatter where you hit the mech, it will always send the dmg to the legs........

Afaik, the model is just used for detecting the hit, and the hit-location textures (for lack of a better word) are for telling the game what got hit.

I remember reading something like this here but I cannot find the posts....hence why I asked if a dev could shed some light on this as I could be completly wrong.....

Edited by Fooooo, 30 May 2013 - 05:10 AM.