51 replies to this topic

[Major Bill Curtis]

Alright, someone did the community a real service by listing all the Clan 'mechs for you folks who don't know the lore as well as some of us lunatics: Clans aren't coming to the Inner Sphere until next year (it's 3049).

Now, I've also seen lots of folks asking for ultra-rare Star League 'mechs. What's a Star League 'mech?

Quote

"For example, it’s taken for granted today that the original Star League prompted great strides in various areas of military technology. Various weapons and construction materials had just begun to filter down to the Houses when the Succession Wars erupted. While the Star League member-state militaries and Star League Defense Force’s regular regiments received designs with a smattering of these new technologies, the Clans’ historical databases were the first hint that the Royal regiments’ BattleMechs were more extensively equipped with advanced technology than anyone thought. Almost all of these updated models departed with Kerensky, leaving only a handful behind. That led ComStar to believe that these more advanced units had not been more than limited runs. Even the stockpiles of SLDF hardware on Terra, which formed the basis for the Com Guards, were castoffs not built to Royal regiment specifications. Many believed that the common SLDF designs left in the Inner Sphere were the pinnacle of the technology, and ComStar erroneously codified these designs in Technical Readout: 2750."


"Thanks to the devastation of the Succession Wars, the Inner Sphere would not reach a similar level of technology for centuries. System after system was devastated, destroying valuable plants and databases, and killing those who would have been able to restore the past. With the technological infrastructure and know-how lost, many concessions and compromises were required to keep even the remaining Star League designs alive or, more rarely, in production. Many denizens of the 31st Century who encountered these jury-rigged survivors of the Star League believed they were special, sometimes one-of-a-kind machines" (TRO 3039, pg. 238)

At present, PGI has included no Star League 'mech among the first 12 we've seen, and I'd conjecture that that's a real good idea. Why?

1) Balance: put a Star League 'mech or two in and everybody will drive it --- SL 'mechs are better designed than what we have, so diversity will rapidly disappear; with the MechLab you'll be able to get the performance of many of the Star League machines, but the Star League 'mechs generally don't need the MechLab to be good: they're good off the shelf, even the downgraded versions are. They have a different starting point than the 'mechs that have been released thus far.

2) Lore: The Com Guard (the military branch of Com Star) possesses over 99% of the functioning Star League 'mechs in 3049, and they don't use them---not in 3049 anyway. A very few elite mercenary units have a couple of the Star League 'mechs, and the DCMS has a very few; (we're talking a few dozen copies, usually downgraded, among tens of thousands of battlemechs). PGI has so far done a great job sticking to the lore with the available technologies for 3049.

Here's a (probably incomplete) list of Star League 'mechs, which I think we can look forward to in the future, but will almost certainly not be in the initial release (that is my opinion, but is an opinion based on what we've seen so far):

Black Knight
Bombardier
Cestus
Champion
Crab
Crockett
Emperor
Excalibur
Exterminator
Falcon
Flashman
Guillotine
Hermes
Highlander
Hussar
King Crab
Kintaro
Lancelot
Lynx
Mercury
Mongoose
Nightstar
Pillager
Sentinel
Shootist
Spartan
Spector
Starslayer
Striker
Talon
Thorn
Thug
Thunder Hawk
Wyvern

TL;DR? In my opinion, you're not going to see the above 'mechs in the initial release, and there are very good reasons for this.

Edited by Major Bill Curtis, 07 June 2012 - 09:01 AM.

[DontCare]

Now i want Thunder Hawk, so sad.

[Major Bill Curtis]

The Nightstar is my personal favorite (2 Gauss and ER PPC FTW!), but it's just not around in 3049. The Clan Invasion will bring it back . . .

. . . which means there are some great reasons to play for the Inner Sphere when the Clans invade.

Edited by Major Bill Curtis, 07 June 2012 - 09:07 AM.

[errorabbit]

While that is definitely true, you can still adjust availability by making Star League mechs much more eexpensive.

But you will never get a spread of mechs that is the same as canon lore for that era - that's just impossible, and in my opinion, wouldn't be too fun.
For starters, the very existence of the mechlab will mean that almost every mech is very likely tuned and not going to fight with the standard loadout. The Hardpoint system will probably mean it is going to be CLOSE to one of the variants... but still not that close.

Of course I've seen people on this forum essentially advocating that PGI takes out the mechlab again - while they're entitled to their opinion, I personally think that takes a great part of what makes playing these kind games fun away.
Not something I'd want.

Immersion good and well, but I don't think this is much of a problem.
If you really want them to be rare, let the shop selection be distributed randomly, and have only a limited stock of some mechs.
Although I think that'd be total overkill. Plus, it'd mean those who have more time to keep checking the shops get the better mechs. No it should work either by finances or maybe by unlocking rarer mechs with loyalty points. I think the latter is the best option.

[Deathz Jester]

FLASHMAN Y U SO UGLY?!

[DoubleD]

If I am not mistaken don't the Houses use crappier versions of a few of these (I know DCMS has a lot due to ComStar's "donations"). I coulda sworn FedCom used the King Crab and Exterminator. And the Guillotine was could be found in House Marik. The Thug too seemed pretty common to someone, I forget who.

[Brose]

I will do unspeakable things for a CRB-00.

[Blaze32]

your missing the flea
made in 2501 and is not lost-tech

[Stormwolf]

Major Bill Curtis, on 07 June 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

Alright, someone did the community a real service by listing all the Clan 'mechs for you folks who don't know the lore as well as some of us lunatics: Clans aren't coming to the Inner Sphere until next year (it's 3049).

I made lists a couple of months ago, it's below my sig.

[Arch Liche]

Here is a problem with your list... Yes, most of these are Star League Defense Force mechs, but a lot of them are considered lostech until much later in the time frame of the game. Most of these 'blueprints' were not recovered for quite some time (the fact that a lot of them were not seen until the FedCom civil War) points to the era of them. Some of the 'older' ones that were more common such as the Guillotine or Mercury/Mongoose, etc... could be viable.

[Ooorky]

Where is the 100ton Urban... I mean Imp?

[Karyojin]

Just one Mech i think is missing. The very first BattleMech ever: The Mackie

Edited by Karyojin, 07 June 2012 - 09:49 AM.

[Xantars]

actualy the exterminator was first brought back my House Laio Apparently he had 4 of them hidden away in some dark mech depo that were only used in ultra rare emergencys. they used the tech on these mechs to reintroduce there stealth mechs and power armor

[DireWolf307]

How about a list of what's the most likely, from Battletech 4th Edition which was set in 3049:

• COM-2D Commando
  
• SDR-5V Spider
  
• JR7-D Jenner
  
• PNT-9R Panther
  
• ASN-21 Assassin
  
• CDA-2A Cicada
  
• CLNT-2-3T Clint
  
• HER-2S Hermes II
  
• WTH-1 Whitworth
  
• VND-1R Vindicator
  
• ENF-4R Enforcer
  
• HBK-4G Hunchback
  
• TBT-5N Trebuchet
  
• DV-6M Dervish
  
• DRG-1N Dragon
  
• QKD-4G Quickdraw
  
• CPLT-C1 Catapult
  
• JM6-S JagerMech
  
• GHR-5H Grasshopper
  
• AWS-8Q Awesome
  
• ZEU-6S Zeus
  
• CP-10-Z Cyclops
  
• BNC-3E Banshee
  
• AS7-D Atlas

Striked out = What has already been revealed.

The Cataphract is a retcon to before 3049, and the Centurion and Stalker existed, but just weren't included in the 4th Edition box set. The 4th Edition was also released after HG's mucking, so no Unseens either. I think this list represents what we are most likely to see in the game immediately, other than a few retcons (like the Cataphract) and other random mechs that weren't included in the 4th Edition box set (like the Centurion and Stalker).

[TavRaSel]

I lost track. When in the timeline was the Gray Death memory core recovered?

[Major Bill Curtis]

Blaze32, on 07 June 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

your missing the flea
made in 2501 and is not lost-tech

I left the Flea out because it is not uncommon: in TRO 3050U it shows up in the non-Star League section.

TavRaSel, on 07 June 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

I lost track. When in the timeline was the Gray Death memory core recovered?

3028, which is why we have things like double heat sinks and Endo-steel in 3049.

[DireWolf307]

TavRaSel, on 07 June 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

I lost track. When in the timeline was the Gray Death memory core recovered?

3028, but that doesn't mean that the technology it reintroduced was common in the Inner Sphere yet. Things were only slowly disseminating by the time the Clans showed up, and it took at least a full 5 years before lostech and copies of Clan tech started to become even moderately common in the Inner Sphere.

[Major Bill Curtis]

Ooorky, on 07 June 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

Where is the 100ton Urban... I mean Imp?

Same as the Flea: shows in the non-SL section of TRO 3050U

[Arikiel]

@DireWolf307
The most likely and the ones that make the most sense given the timeline, setting, and availability. They are those from the TR:3039 BattleMechs and First In Centuries chapters. There's issues around the Project Phoenix ones and, as stated in this thread, the Star League ones are not commonly available.

Edited by Arikiel, 07 June 2012 - 10:13 AM.

[Major Bill Curtis]

Arch Liche, on 07 June 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

Here is a problem with your list... Yes, most of these are Star League Defense Force mechs, but a lot of them are considered lostech until much later in the time frame of the game. Most of these 'blueprints' were not recovered for quite some time (the fact that a lot of them were not seen until the FedCom civil War) points to the era of them. Some of the 'older' ones that were more common such as the Guillotine or Mercury/Mongoose, etc... could be viable.

Sure, they're viable: the FWL had eight (yes 8) of the full-on SL Mercury 'mechs . . . in 3059

Wolf's Dragoons have a few, even before 3049, and yes the DCMS . . . but we're talking what? 1 'mech in 1000?

Even so, I just don't think we're going to see any SL equipment before the Clans invade.

Edited by Major Bill Curtis, 07 June 2012 - 10:15 AM.