64 replies to this topic

[Mr 144]

Joseph Mallan, on 31 May 2013 - 06:12 AM, said:

I used both PPC and ERPPCs (well one of each) before the heat change. They both worked fine. In a payload of Gauss, 3x SRM6 and a ERPPC, that one weapon was perfect. Two PPCs are supposed to be Hel on your heat scale but deadly to hit with.

And I would rather the heat-scale be two ERPPCs be Hel on your heatscale...and normal PPCs being a 2-ton/1-heat upgrade from LLs like they are now.

I used (ER)PPCs when they weren't cool too...along with LPL when they were hot as ****....I like to think I have a handle on global balance more than the average Joe...as do you.

Mr 144

[Vodrin Thales]

Mister Blastman, on 31 May 2013 - 03:21 AM, said:

Solving Convergence is the ONLY solution to this problem.

Everything else is half-assed.

Convergence is the real problem and has been since Mechwarrior 3.

http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

I disagree. Prior to the buffs to PPC's you almost never saw a poptart sniper, despite the cataphract 3D being available as an ideal platform. We had the same quality of convergence then as now, and it really wasn't any more difficult to snipe at range, but because PPC's were relatively less effective, and players were generally reluctant to put a gauss in the RT of 3D you saw very few jump snipers.

Now missiles are less effective and PPC's are much more effective. This is the largest factor driving the current meta, not convergence. Increase the heat generation on PPC's again and I think you will see a significant shift in the meta, especially if jump jet shake is folded in. Create greater penalties for overheating (I favor forcing shut down until heat drops to 70%, and heat causing internal damage if you overheat twice without allowing heat to drop to 25%) as well and boating high heat weapons will become much less popular.

[Livewyr]

Mr 144, on 31 May 2013 - 06:11 AM, said:

Meh Livewyr....we've been going back and forth for months now. I consider you intelligent (you are from WI after-all). I'd like to run with you and chat for a bit. I think we've gotten to the point where forum text can only go 'round in circles...and a face-to-face so-to-speak would do us both good on perspectives. You're one of the few people I disagree with that I don't understand...and that bothers me..lol. Wanna run/chat on TS ?

On PPCs...I think these are really ficticious poster-childs...as using normal PPCs means one of two things..

#1: Runs 2 + ballistic AND has supplementary weapons
#2 Boats 6

Mr 144

Yeah, that would be cool. I'm always up for a discussion carried out in adult fashion. (But as can be seen many times over, I'm not entirely above using sarcasm to to amuse myself on deserving individuals/groups.)

I'm fairly frequently on Comstar NA hanging out in the public training channel.

[Mister Blastman]

Vodrin Thales, on 31 May 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

I disagree. Prior to the buffs to PPC's you almost never saw a poptart sniper, despite the cataphract 3D being available as an ideal platform. We had the same quality of convergence then as now, and it really wasn't any more difficult to snipe at range, but because PPC's were relatively less effective, and players were generally reluctant to put a gauss in the RT of 3D you saw very few jump snipers.

Now missiles are less effective and PPC's are much more effective. This is the largest factor driving the current meta, not convergence. Increase the heat generation on PPC's again and I think you will see a significant shift in the meta, especially if jump jet shake is folded in. Create greater penalties for overheating (I favor forcing shut down until heat drops to 70%, and heat causing internal damage if you overheat twice without allowing heat to drop to 25%) as well and boating high heat weapons will become much less popular.

Increasing the heat isn't enough. MWO has a broken heat system to begin with.

Take Mechwarrior Living Legends, for instance. If you fire two ERPPCs... your heat is instantly maxxed out. Fire them again... you're dead. The heat scale is based on 30 points and getting hot has REAL penalties in that game.

Not in MWO. This 60 - 70 point heat scale here is bogus.

So you raise their heat, people will /still/ be able to fire more often than they should and still have precision damage from far away which totally goes against the spirit of Battletech.

It is better to get over the pain and agony and:

a. Implement a true Battletech heat scale with penalties
b. Implement a true system of convergence as I proposed MULTIPLE times in the past which will dramatically improve the game and stop this weapon balance dance.

Being able to do 30 - 45 points of damage to a single panel on a mech from 800 meters away with the only skill required being a simple button click... that's ridiculous. Battletech was never meant to work like that.

Put /skill/ back in the game.

http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

[Shakespeare]

I highly recommend that those frustrated with the highlander Sniper 8-mans go and play conquest for a while. It's what my team often does. Unfortunately with such limited benefit to closing the distance for supposed brawler weapons, it's way to easy for assault matches to turn into camping. Frozen and 1 side of River City are bad, and getting a team that stays on their base in Tourmaline is enough to make me stop playing for the night, but conquest forces teams to move, and shifts the main battle location dynamically. You'll see more weight balance and less stationary/ retreat-and-fire snipe teams, although occasionally one shows up, and can still murder you on small maps. But the medium to large ones? Tactics wins.

It's way more fun right now, as long as the metagame leans towards sniping and defensive play. Frankly, it's been a problem with Assault mode since day 1 - the safest strategy is to stay put, and give all ground to the enemy - which forces them to come up with something more aggressive and clever. With some patches, the brawl was too difficult to resist, and defensive teams paid the price. In others, LRM could break up a stalemate by scattering. Right now, though? There is no disadvantage to surrendering the whole map to someone in order to stay on base and focus down the team when they arrive.

Except on conquest.
Now go! There aren't enough 8-man teams playing right now, liven the pot, will ya? We play Tuesday thru Thursday 10 EST onward until it peters out...but last time we played, there were 4 teams constantly rotating around each other. Not NEARLY enough variety. Quit slaughtering the PUGs and join us for some real challenges!