51 replies to this topic

[GrimJim]

Kobold, on 07 June 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

I agree that the main advantage of an omni would be unlimited hardpoints. This may be balanced by perhaps not allowing you to change the engine, internal structure, or armor of an omnimech.

^^ Interesting.

Since thats kinda how it is in TT. In TT though, you usually aren't switching it up as much as you are in MW. Though I wonder if once ppl get "their" configuration set & tweaked if they won't "lock-in" so to speak.

[CompleteTanker]

Geist Null, on 07 June 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

idk if cost balances would be enough to counter all the laser boats

omni boater: I alpha you with my gajillion lazors! muwhahaha!
<Fires da lazors!>
<Heat Level Critical>
<Critical Heat Level Exceeded>
<Ejecting>
BOOM
omni boater: waaaaahhhh!


It's a balance area; omni hardpoints are more flexible, but the weight of the pods themselves may be the cost. Or they use more critical slots, or whatever. WIth every mech of any kind, more weight or slots in weapons means less weight or slots for armour and heat sinks.

Actually, developing the "omni hardpoints use more critical slots"; you could argue that an omni-hardpoint uses the same number of critical slots regardless of the pod. It's "hard wired" into the mech.
Like a memory slot in a PC; it makes no odds how many gigabytes the module (read "weapon in the pod") you put in it, the slot is occupied or empty and takes up the same amount of physical space on the motherboard ("critical slots on the mech chassis") regardless.

Not saying I have the answer, just that there are always checks and balances.

[Rot Wulf]

CompleteTanker, on 07 June 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

omni boater: I alpha you with my gajillion lazors! muwhahaha!
<Fires da lazors!>
<Heat Level Critical>
<Critical Heat Level Exceeded>
<Ejecting>
BOOM
omni boater: waaaaahhhh!


It's a balance area; omni hardpoints are more flexible, but the weight of the pods themselves may be the cost. Or they use more critical slots, or whatever. WIth every mech of any kind, more weight or slots in weapons means less weight or slots for armour and heat sinks.

Actually, developing the "omni hardpoints use more critical slots"; you could argue that an omni-hardpoint uses the same number of critical slots regardless of the pod. It's "hard wired" into the mech.
Like a memory slot in a PC; it makes no odds how many gigabytes the module (read "weapon in the pod") you put in it, the slot is occupied or empty and takes up the same amount of physical space on the motherboard ("critical slots on the mech chassis") regardless.

Not saying I have the answer, just that there are always checks and balances.

Cost of repair should be the difference. Its higher tech, parts are harder to get, adds up to higher total cost of ownership in every way.

[CompleteTanker]

Rot Wulf, on 07 June 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

Cost of repair should be the difference. Its higher tech, parts are harder to get, adds up to higher total cost of ownership in every way.

Checks and balances ;-)

[Grokmoo]

I see omni-mechs having a bit more flexibility, in that they will have some "omni" hardpoints that can fit any weapon system. There would thus probably not be a need for omni variants.

Or, maybe omni mechs will not be distinguished from each other at all, and all mechs will just have several variants. This would probably work better with the current model of gaining XP on a per-variant basis.

[IceSerpent]

Just out of curiosity, what makes you guys think that an Omni can mount any weapon config one can imagine? All references I am aware of say that you can swap weapon pods "on the fly", but not that you can easily modify the contents of a given pod.

[Davers]

GrimJim, on 07 June 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

^^ Interesting.

Since thats kinda how it is in TT. In TT though, you usually aren't switching it up as much as you are in MW. Though I wonder if once ppl get "their" configuration set & tweaked if they won't "lock-in" so to speak.

I imagine if people get bonuses from the skill tree like '2% bonus with energy weapons' that they will not want to use ACs or missiles as much.

[Zearoth]

It does make sense for it to cost more because of the higher tech... But if it saves as much in the long run and allows you plenty of customizability then for me it sounds worth it. Unless you can get the perfect load out on one of the regular 'Mechs... Then to me it's just flaunting higher tech.

[Scarlett Avignon]

I have a feeling that Omnimechs will have hard points (simply to combat twink fits) but that they will have "Omni-points" or points that will be able to fit any type of weapon system.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Ya, we really don't need Omni's running around with 15 flamers.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

With Omni's once you have a number of different "pods" you can swap them around at the last minute whereas perhaps for IS mechs you have to choose your mechs configuration when you know the planet (ie desrt, ice or normal) but not the map.

[StriplingWarrior]

I think that the mechlab to some extent makes the Omni concept impotent. However there are several ways that game mechanics can even it out quite a bit if not totally.
1. Anything seems to fit anywhere-go look at the mechlab dev breakdown. Takes a Hunchback's AC and puts some energy weapons in there.
2. Cost to customize a "normal" mech should be disgustingly expensive.
3. Countering this is that repairs should be cheap once it is configured.
4. It is assumed that the omnipod not the swap out is the major cost for an omni driver. Therefore destroyed weapons and their pods would be a (again huge)recouring cost to the Omni driver.
5. Omni chassis minus their pods are not very configurable. You want a Crossbow chassis, you are stuck with that speed and not being able to get rid of intigrated heat sinks or torso mounted lasers, unless you want to pay similar cost to a "normal" mech. If then...

This last point I think is the biggest drawback of the omni. Not running out of crits, not running out of weight(although weight of the omnipod will be the primary limit to what it can carry). Heat management. Even an assault like a Naga with the Arrow IVs removed still only has about 4 heat sinks in the chassis and IIRC 14(cant remember for sure) crits in each arm. Not much lazer boating going on there without some real heat issues.

Heat and it's modifiers were very well dealt with in TT I think. If something like that were put in place here it would well keep the lazer boats away. Especially if the Devs replaced the ending insta shutdown with "Boom". I know what some are going to say about heat and I can explain my thinking in further detail if needed.

TL:DR
IS mech spendy to change, cheap to repair
Omni mech cheap to change within limits of chassis, expensive to outfit and repair
Heat management should be a great tool for devs to limit laser boating.

[Sigmund Sandoval]

I think that omni 'mechs will probably have the option to quickly switch between load outs with a significantly reduced cost. Having variable configurations available and having to pay little to switch between them. I am assuming that changing configs will be somewhat expensive every time you have your 'mech altered. Assuming that it is much more difficult to modify a desighn that isn't specifically designed for multiple loads.

[Itrosnoc]

an easy remedy would be to use variants of omni mechs and keep the load out restrictions while being able to change weapons but not types for that variant.

[ragnarawk]

real life situations are where the omni mech would shine. one mission on the front you could have a missle suport boat then once the enemy had retreated into a wood or city switch to a close combat pod system and move in and fluch em out. one mech handleing multible jobs was the concept. in a computer game however ya have no real rush between missions so a inner sphere mech can take all the time in the world to refit and go to the next fight. for this game i would have to agree that for instace the catapult and katapult would be 2 seprate mechs.

[Tsula]

No, given the way Omnimechs work. Weapon system are modular can be mounted in any available pod space.
With the MechLab as it is right now, you are limited to weapon type hard points. So if the right torso has a ballistic weapon only a ballistic weapon can be mounted there.
Omni's in true form can mount anything in that location if pod space and tonnage allow it.
All systems in Omni’s are modular meaning they can be replaced with any other mod. So if I want to mount missile where I had a ER large laser I can.
With the Hard point system from what I read and watched in Video, I am limited to mounting only another energy based weapon in that location. I could mount two ER med laser but I could not mount my missiles there if I wanted to.

Edited by tsula, 07 June 2012 - 12:39 PM.

[Jonas]

You can keep the Clan Omni's I just want the weapons. I would think that the cost of the upkeep on the weapons alone would be a lot, I dont want to even think about the cost of having to keep the Mech in fighting shape to.

Besides having a IS Mech with Clan weapons is always a nasty surprise for the person your shooting at!

Edited by Jonas, 07 June 2012 - 12:43 PM.

[Vashts1985]

Short answer: no

long answer: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


er omni designs simply allowed for easier modification of parts on the mech. inner sphere could modify mechs just fine, but they had to chop the mech up. how the mech is modified is not effected, it is simply lore. the mechlab simply provides an interface for specifying what you want to modify your mech with

[Tandris]

I can't help but wonder if they are even going to allow Clan mechs to be piloted by the user? I'm not sure if there has been any information on how the devs are going to roll out the Clan invasion, but I certainly have a sense that it may not lead to players being able to pilot Omni-mechs or any other Clan technology falling into the Mechlab.
Just my thought on the topic.

[Stiffish Asp]

Omni mechs are modular in design, their load outs can be changed out in a matter of hours, whereas IS mechs, in order to change a configuration, could take days to a week because a) not modular in design not sophisticated enough to recognize the load out and adjust balance accordingly c) load outs are hard wired into the mech d) depending on the desired load out, techs may have to muck around with the actual structure of the machine. I could go on as to why a Omni in the mech lab wouldn't be irrelevant, but the short version is that each hard point on a IS mech can take only so much weight, or is hampered by size.