86 replies to this topic

[Syllogy]

I disagree. My Blackjack-3 has a 10:1 K/D

[Joseph Mallan]

I still do fine in my Centurion-D with AC10. *shrug*

[pulupulu]

The only reason I see to play medium these days is that in pug you hope the other team get a medium as well, with you being able to do some damage and the opposing medium is just a dead weight (the only instance player skill+intelligence heavily matter in mwo?).

If you are the only medium in the match like 8 men drop or simply bad luck... You can just roll over and die and save everyone the time.

Edited by pulupulu, 31 May 2013 - 06:46 AM.

[KharnZor]

Some of the uneducated opinions about mediums in this thread are stupid. Useless? Hardly.

[Tahribator]

Agreed and agreed. There's nothing that ruins my MWO day as bad as getting hit by a 45 alpha and getting that glowing side torso. If PGI somehow manages to get the meta switch to DPS weapons rather than high burst damage weapons, then mediums might get more effective.

With SRM's and SSRM's(to the joy of lights) being ineffective after the splash removal and meta swinging to LRM boating and good ol' poptarts, being a medium isn't that enjoyable as before. My light&assault hunter Treb 7M is in the hangar crying right now.

Edited by Tahribator, 31 May 2013 - 07:03 AM.

[Jetfire]

Running a BJ-1X with 4x mlas and 2xmplas with 2x flamers and the biggest XL. It is a serious flanker and light killer. Mediums are solid if played right.

[Coralld]

I have to ask this question, being a Medium and Light pilot my self. How are you guys getting these alleged super amazing kdr any way? Now I can understand if you are pugging and doing great, its not uncommon for me to mop the floor with an Atlas's face in a pug match in my HBK 4H Gauss back, but I find it highly unlikely to be doing that good in 4 to 8 man drops in Mediums.

[zraven7]

I do quite alright in my Trebbies. Maybe you just aren't all that great with mediums...

[Coralld]

zraven7, on 31 May 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

I do quite alright in my Trebbies. Maybe you just aren't all that great with mediums...

Perhaps its because my vid card runs hot and I need to update its fan so I no longer run at 10 to 12fps most of the time, because when I run at 25+ fps I usually am a beast in Mediums and Lights.

Thus your statement in regards to me is invalid, not to mention it doesn't answer the question of are you pugging or doing 4 to 8 man drops.

Edit:
I'd also like to point out that every one who says Mediums are fine or at the very least saying they do great in their Mediums are 9 times out of 10 piloting Cents or Trebs. Every one knows that Cents are zombies and this is do to a bug which allows them to tank two or even three times more damage then they should. The Cause of this is unknown, and it appear that no one wants to know or have it solved because the Medium class, being in such a pinch as they are, that no one want to do anything that may hurt them even more, even if it means abusing a well known broken mechanic.
Trebs, the reason why Trebs are viable is because, well, they can run hellacious fast, up to 100 or even peaking out at 120kph or something like that. Most Treb builds are long range oriented with moderate mid to short range capability and many of these pilots poptart (and we all know how great poptarting is) Now some Trebs are built for brawling but most are long range setups. The Trebs saving grave is its wicked speed that no other Medium mech out side the Cicada can match.

Edited by Coralld, 31 May 2013 - 08:05 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I disagree with the OP.

I still make very respectable numbers with my Hunchbacks. Mediums are at a bit of a disadvantage, but a well played Medium with a smart pilot is still VERY dangerous.

P.S. A 9MLaser Hunch or a 8MLaser Blackjack is especially something to be careful around (especially when they do 90kph+). Some say they don't fear Mediums, these mechs are to be feared. Just saying.

[zraven7]

Coralld, on 31 May 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

Perhaps its because my vid card runs hot and I need to update its fan so I no longer run at 10 to 12fps most of the time, because when I run at 25+ fps I usually am a beast in Mediums and Lights.

Thus your statement in regards to me is invalid, not to mention it doesn't answer the question of are you pugging or doing 4 to 8 man drops.

Edit:
I'd also like to point out that every one who says Mediums are fine or at the very least saying they do great in their Mediums are 9 times out of 10 piloting Cents or Trebs. Every one knows that Cents are zombies and this is do to a bug which allows them to tank two or even three times more damage then they should. The Cause of this is unknown, and it appear that no one wants to know or have it solved because the Medium class, being in such a pinch as they are, that no one want to do anything that may hurt them even more, even if it means abusing a well known broken mechanic.
Trebs, the reason why Trebs are viable is because, well, they can run hellacious fast, up to 100 or even peaking out at 120kph or something like that. Most Treb builds are long range oriented with moderate mid to short range capability and many of these pilots poptart (and we all know how great poptarting is) Now some Trebs are built for brawling but most are long range setups. The Trebs saving grave is its wicked speed that no other Medium mech out side the Cicada can match.

?

So, you're saying that, to your really slow computer, mediums are useless? But Trebs and Cents and Cicacas are alright? So half the mediums are useless? Sorta?

[Thorqemada]

In the current High-Alpha-Meta piloting a Medium is more dangerous than anything else.
Mediums are to slow to flank, to big to sneak (now with seismic sneaking is gone anyway), to vulnerable to stand and to weak to kill.
Every role left in the game can be done better by a Light, a Heavy or an Assault.
Without ecnomical gameplay Mediums cant shine, wihtout dropweight limits Mediums cant shine, without BV Mediums cant shine.
When you drive nowadys a Medium you do it bcs you simply still like it more than anything else but from the rational pov its a waste of time and effort bcs you lower your and your teams success.

Mediums only role is to entertain the hardcore Medium pilots and be mobile target signs for everyone else.

[Coralld]

zraven7, on 31 May 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

?

So, you're saying that, to your really slow computer, mediums are useless? But Trebs and Cents and Cicacas are alright? So half the mediums are useless? Sorta?

I never said they were useless, if you go back and read my first post on the second page I have even stated right at the start that they are not useless, its just that there is a lot of things stacked against them, also, I was pointing out that every one who appears to believe that they are fine or making it sound like they are, and I mean no disrespect by this, may be looking through rose tinted glasses shall we say for a lack of a better term, by using mechs with capabilities/ traits that currently the others do not have. Now one can make an argument about Treb vs Cicada but the Treb is far better armored and has more weight to throw around, and has jump jets.

Also, most of what I was talking about was not from what happened to me in game, sense I know full well that my graphics card sucks right now and thus would be a poor point of reference because yes, slower and crappy fps does make a difference, which I am sure you know. What I am talking about is what I have witnessed, not just from when I am piloting, but in general.

Edited by Coralld, 31 May 2013 - 08:29 AM.

[Kraven Kor]

Medium mechs being USELESS explains why my best stats, so far as W/L and K/D, are on my Centurion AL and my Hunchback 4P.

Wait... no it doesn't!

Coralld, on 31 May 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

I never said they were useless, if you go back and read my first post on the second page I have even stated right at the start that they are not useless, its just that there is a lot of things stacked against them, also, I was pointing out that every one who appears to believe that they are fine or making it sound like they are, and I mean no disrespect by this, looking through rose tinted glasses shall we say for a lack of a better term, by using mechs with capabilities/ traits that currently the others do not have. Now one can make an argument about Treb vs Cicada but the Treb is far better armored and has more weight to throw around, and has jump jets.

The THREAD is TITLED "Medium Mechs Useless." So I'm not sure this was directed at you, rather than in general to the subject of the thread.

A lot of comments here are like that and a particular person will take offense even though the comment may not have been singling them out. Just sayin'.

[oldradagast]

Mediums aren't used because:

1) No tonnage limits: May as well bring a heavy.

2) Grossly oversized. Seriously - place a Trenchbucket or Centurion next to a Highlander and tell me that they aren't 75-ton heavies... This complete lack of scale makes them far easier targets than their low armor can endure.

3) SRM nerf: Biggest damage dealer for most Mediums, nerfed.

4) Alpha-boating = win: Mediums can't alpha boat as well as bigger mechs, so people don't use them.

[SirLANsalot]

oldradagast, on 31 May 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:

4) Alpha-boating = win: Mediums can't alpha boat as well as bigger mechs, so people don't use them.

HBK 4P. A mech MADE to boat ML's.

Boating is only an issue when you take LARGE weapons. Aka LL/LPL/PPC/ERPPC, those guns are not made to do that. However ML and under ARE MADE TO BE BOATED. All the other classes of guns are self balancing in either pure tonnage or crit space.

[Meltatron]

I RIP AND TEAR with my 4P and i don't have a problem with my cent. you cant play mediums like a assault and stomp in front of the big boys and stare at them like you have allot of armor. Mediums take skill in maneuvering and situational awareness to capitalize on them. That's how to play them. though i am not saying a 55dmg alpha from a Misery does not tear most mediums in half.

[Coralld]

Kraven Kor, on 31 May 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

Medium mechs being USELESS explains why my best stats, so far as W/L and K/D, are on my Centurion AL and my Hunchback 4P.

Wait... no it doesn't!



The THREAD is TITLED "Medium Mechs Useless." So I'm not sure this was directed at you, rather than in general to the subject of the thread.

A lot of comments here are like that and a particular person will take offense even though the comment may not have been singling them out. Just sayin'.

I am well aware and no insult was taken, its not my first day on the interwebs.

[stjobe]

Coralld, on 31 May 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

Every one knows that Cents are zombies and this is do to a bug which allows them to tank two or even three times more damage then they should. The Cause of this is unknown, and it appear that no one wants to know or have it solved because the Medium class, being in such a pinch as they are, that no one want to do anything that may hurt them even more, even if it means abusing a well known broken mechanic.

I don't know if I'd really call it a bug or broken mechanic; I sure wouldn't call it abuse. It certainly isn't unknown, it's just damage transfer combined with the debris left when arms get shot off.

What happens is this: When you shoot the arm off a 'mech, there's some debris left at the shoulder. When you hit that debris, it counts as an arm hit, and only 50% of the damage done gets transferred to the side torso. Now if the side torso is destroyed, it isn't removed at all, and any damage to it only transfers 50% to the center torso.

So if you hit a 'mech with a destroyed arm and side torso in the debris of its arm, only 25% of that damage will transfer to the center torso (50 % reduction first on arm to side torso, then another 50% reduction on side torso to center torso).

It works the same for all 'mechs, but here's why the Cent is especially protected by this: It has giant arms and side torsos but a very narrow CT. The debris left over from a shot-off Cent arm is also larger than on just about any other 'mech, so it's still there, acting as a shield for the side torso and CT.

So you see, it's no mystery or well-kept secret what's happening; it's been posted on these forums before and I'm sure the devs are well aware of it.

You want to kill a Cent? Make sure you hit the CT, not the arms or side torsos.

Edited by stjobe, 31 May 2013 - 08:54 AM.

[Petroshka]

aniviron, on 30 May 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

Trebs and cents are gigantic, and hunchbacks have no weapons if you have the brains to aim for the massive, lightly-armored SHOOT ME box. Blackjack is a decent platform, but it doesn't have enough weapons to play a combat role without an XL engine, and it doesn't go fast enough to scout (as though scouting were a legit way to play this game at all, but that's a different balance issue). The only one that really has a home is the cicada, but it's just an oversized light, and does the jenner's job but not quite as well- a JR7-F can take the same weapons loadout, armor load and move at the same speed (speed cap) with a marginally better cooling efficiency while having a smaller hitbox to boot.

And yes, OP is correct about the speed, size, and armor factor. I am tempted to just disconnect every time alpine comes up because there is just nowhere to hide, and a medium chassis just cannot take a pounding at 800m. Here is my mech after getting hit twice; this is why nobody plays medium:

aniviron, on 30 May 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

Trebs and cents are gigantic, and hunchbacks have no weapons if you have the brains to aim for the massive, lightly-armored SHOOT ME box. Blackjack is a decent platform, but it doesn't have enough weapons to play a combat role without an XL engine, and it doesn't go fast enough to scout (as though scouting were a legit way to play this game at all, but that's a different balance issue). The only one that really has a home is the cicada, but it's just an oversized light, and does the jenner's job but not quite as well- a JR7-F can take the same weapons loadout, armor load and move at the same speed (speed cap) with a marginally better cooling efficiency while having a smaller hitbox to boot.

And yes, OP is correct about the speed, size, and armor factor. I am tempted to just disconnect every time alpine comes up because there is just nowhere to hide, and a medium chassis just cannot take a pounding at 800m. Here is my mech after getting hit twice; this is why nobody plays medium:

What are you doing skylining yourself on the highest peak in Alpine with a medium laser build mech?