76 replies to this topic

[TroubleEntendre]

Something I've noticed recently is what when players try to form a plan, other players often reply with flippant, unhelpful responses that puts a damper on any desire to communicate or work together.

Example:

Quote

"What's the plan?"

"Kill them."

This isn't helpful. It's not clever. And now the very idea of communicating and trying to work together is being portrayed as somehow silly or absurd. This game relies on teamwork. Don't be That Guy who sabotages your team because you want to feel like you're funny. You're not funny. You're annoying.

Edited by TroubleEntendre, 14 May 2013 - 11:14 PM.

[Keifomofutu]

I dunno assuming he is capable of it "kill them" could be a very good plan.

[Onmyoudo]

Actually, premades will almost never communicate their plan to you unless you ask. They're there to try and abuse you as a meatshield for their tactics, not include you in them. Which is a fair assumption for most PuGs, but if the question never gets asked then nobody gets an answer, do they?

These days I don't bother, myself. I drop in and start walking. 95% of the time the rest of my team will follow my lead.

[ReguIus]

You don't need a plan if you bring enough PPCs and Gauss to the field.

Had enough of platitudes yet? I get it. I've gotten so cynical over time that I don't bother to "form" plans anymore. Too often you're stuck in the same team with this one odd fellow who runs off alone with the only ECM Atlas in your team. 95% of the time you have to best odds of survival if you stick together, so my advice is, follow the blind.

It's a sad fact that some people are just too lazy, ignorant or otherwise incapable of identifying the reason in what you're trying to tell them. So you're always better off following the mindless mooks and make do with whatever happens afterwards.

I can be wrong, too.

[Onmyoudo]

Neverfar, on 15 May 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

You already complained that you get answers you don't like. So why ask?

I don't believe I did.

Neverfar, on 15 May 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

Again, if there's a plan in mind, it's going to be said by the guy who had it. Nagging them just invites smart-*** responses. From me too, probably.

Asking, once, if anybody else has a plan in mind is hardly nagging. Do you scream at a friend if he asks what time you're meeting later? Smart-*** responses just highlight that you're being a smart-*** and are counterproductive to the supposedly team-oriented nature of the game that people are so quick to throw about.

Given that the typed chat function is the only in-game communication currently available to us I don't think it's too much to ask that it is actually used.

[James DeGriz]

If there's someone on the team with a plan, generally they'll communicate it. Thus, if no one communicates a plan, and someone else asks for one, it's unlikely anyone is going to reply with anything beyond "Kill the other team. Don't die". Given too that more or less all the maps we have have the same tried and tested route, generally at least a couple of players will start on that journey on their own and everyone else will follow it, you more or less have your plan right there.

Not saying any of the above is "right", just why you might not get the kind of response you're after.

[Liberator]

Kurbutti, on 15 May 2013 - 12:39 AM, said:

You don't need a plan if you bring enough PPCs and Gauss to the field.

Had enough of platitudes yet? I get it. I've gotten so cynical over time that I don't bother to "form" plans anymore. Too often you're stuck in the same team with this one odd fellow who runs off alone with the only ECM Atlas in your team. 95% of the time you have to best odds of survival if you stick together, so my advice is, follow the blind.

It's a sad fact that some people are just too lazy, ignorant or otherwise incapable of identifying the reason in what you're trying to tell them. So you're always better off following the mindless mooks and make do with whatever happens afterwards.

I can be wrong, too.

This. In random games most people learn the "pattern" of engagement, that is do not stray to far from the flock unless you want to fight some lights, do not walk over open plains, and fit for long range combat.

That is the basic "plan" and during the early times actually telling your team to do this increased your chances of winning tenfold.

These days most players run some sort of gank light or sniper boat. There is only so much you can do with a light or a assault in ways of tactic if you are not in a premade.

[Sephlock]

I agree with both sides in this debate.

Being both a "plan?" kinda guy and a smart alecky "kill them"* kinda guy, might I suggest a third option?

Don't be THIS guy:




*Or more likely "Don't get shot"- my old stand by from Counterstrike.

[Herbstwind]

... sorry, could not resist

[Sephlock]

Dare I ask what PFM means in this case ?

[Novakaine]

Sephlock, on 15 May 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

I agree with both sides in this debate.

Being both a "plan?" kinda guy and a smart alecky "kill them"* kinda guy, might I suggest a third option?

Don't be THIS guy:




*Or more likely "Don't get shot"- my old stand by from Counterstrike.

Yeah the memories.
PGi could take a lesson form this one.
GAMEPLAY.

[Kyynele]

Like people already said, "plan?" isn't really an attempt to form a plan It comes across as you wanting someone else to do the thinking, and to take responsibility of the outcome, which is somewhat irritating. You could just as easily include the default course of action in your question: "epsi?" "upper?" "lake?" Those have way lower chance of getting smart-*** responses while still getting the response if someone actually does have a real plan to share. As a nice side-effect, if there is a complete noob in the team, he might get an idea what the usual approach is.

I think the primary reason why premades don't include the randoms in their tactics is because they have no idea what builds the others are piloting. And without that information, all plans end up so vague that you'd be as well off with just "don't do anything stupid."

[ThunderHart]

Without any long winded excuses I agree.

[Sephlock]

Kyynele, on 15 May 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

I think the primary reason why premades don't include the randoms in their tactics is because they have no idea what builds the others are piloting.

Honestly, with the meta the way it is right now, does it really matter?

[General Taskeen]

Sephlock, on 15 May 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

I agree with both sides in this debate.

Being both a "plan?" kinda guy and a smart alecky "kill them"* kinda guy, might I suggest a third option?

Don't be THIS guy:




*Or more likely "Don't get shot"- my old stand by from Counterstrike.

His team got matched against sync dropping stompers. Nothing he could do, but he most definitely should have retreated or used some shooting/scooting tactics, and also not mounting MWO Machine Guns.

[Hobietime]

Sephlock, on 15 May 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

I agree with both sides in this debate.

Being both a "plan?" kinda guy and a smart alecky "kill them"* kinda guy, might I suggest a third option?

Don't be THIS guy:




*Or more likely "Don't get shot"- my old stand by from Counterstrike.

The one thing that kills me about this trailer is he didn't focus on one mech and instead just sits there and jizzes over everyone. You just ripped of an atlas' RT. Why wouldn't you finish him and take at least one mech out of the fight. Or if you do want to play James Deen and draw all that agro why don't you peek from cover and draw them into the city where your chances are much better and you can face them one one.

Obviously low Elo.

Edited by Hobietime, 15 May 2013 - 11:02 AM.

[Daggett]

In my opinion "What's the plan" is as much a useless question as the response "Kill them" is.

The best answer you can hope for is the usual "Stick together, focus fire".

And the truth is that this is the best universal plan which has a reasonable success-probability.
Puggers don't need any better one.

The only additional impulse a pug needs sometimes is a direction.

But don't just write a direction immediately. Either see if someone leads the way or do it yourself.
Only if they fail to flock by themselves there is a need to write a direction in the chat.
Otherwise you only cause confusion and could probably trigger the exact opposite of what you want.

That's all a pug needs for tactics. The rest depends on how bright your team-mates are.
If you have guys with suicidal tendencies in your team they will run into each enemy sniper regardless of any plan.
If they are smart they will find good flanking opportunities all by themselves.

A pug can easily be self-organizing with minimal chatting and planning just by using common sense. It only depends on your mates skill and personality. If they can't self-organize and survive at least some minutes, then they will most likely fail executing even the most brilliant plan.

Of cause this all will hopefully change with 12vs12 where it probably makes more sense to send a lance on a flanking job.

Edited by Daggett, 15 May 2013 - 11:31 AM.

[Sephlock]

Hobietime, on 15 May 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

The one thing that kills me about this trailer is he didn't focus on one mech and instead just sits there and jizzes over everyone. You just ripped of an atlas' RT. Why wouldn't you finish him and take at least one mech out of the fight. Or if you do want to play James Deen and draw all that agro why don't you peek from cover and draw them into the city where your chances are much better and you can face them one one.

Obviously low Elo.

He realizes he is going to die and just wants to spread around as much damage as possible. Its costly to repair all of those mechs.

Plus he didn't want any of them to feel like they could just pour on the fire unmolested.

And the pauses between shots (when he stopped firing and turned to another) gave his heat sinks a few moments in which to work.

[Hobietime]

Sephlock, on 15 May 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

He realizes he is going to die and just wants to spread around as much damage as possible. Its costly to repair all of those mechs.

Plus he didn't want any of them to feel like they could just pour on the fire unmolested.

And the pauses between shots (when he stopped firing and turned to another) gave his heat sinks a few moments in which to work.

True. I just can't even imagine, since I would probably be running the other way in real life.

I would probably make a bad soldier.

[Pater Mors]

Simply put; Assault and Conquest are our only two game modes and unless you're a complete nub, everyone knows the 'plan' by now for basically any map they drop on. A bit of communication is always a very good thing, but I've had plenty of matches where no one except me communicates yet the team still functions reasonably well.

Two things will change this (hopefully) in the next few months:

1 - The current meta will change away from poptarts which really do destroy all tactical play currently with the whole 'stomp to two opposing ridges and snipe each other' mentality.
2 - New game modes like KotH, CtF, Dropship and hopefully other objective based modes will be introduced. This will help push tactics back to the front.