20 replies to this topic

[Stardancer01]

Why do your weapons recharge & reload when your mech is shut down?

I’ve just noticed that my weapons don’t power down when my mech does and when I over heat after firing a weapon my weapon has recharged or reloaded while I was shut down.

Surely if you overheat your weapons should shut down and discharge and certainly not reload or recharge.

I have also noticed something funny happening with target lock as well

[A banana in the tailpipe]

This brings up a very good point. Shutting down should ONLY remedy your heat situation. I'd even go so far as to say that shutting down too many times degrades the radiation shielding of the cockpit and should kill the pilot.

[Lootee]

At the very least you should shut down for 10 seconds, or however long it takes for your excess heat to come down to 100%. Whichever is longer. The 3 second restart is nonsense.

If you shut down in the air you should fall like a cannonball and take damage when your legs hit the ground, and then take extra damage when your mech flops over.

If you shut down while running you should also fall and take damage.

Yes, the shut down penalties are currently laughable. There's no reason not to run 4-6 PPCs and jump around.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 02 June 2013 - 09:37 AM.

[jakucha]

Seems fair.

PanchoTortilla, on 02 June 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

Yes, the shut down penalties are currently laughable. There's no reason not to run 4-6 PPCs and jump around while you're at it.

I don't think the problem is with shutdown penalties, though adding what OP suggested would be good. I think it's with the lack of penalities for using alpha with high damage weapons, too often. Mechwarrior Tactics currently handles the alpha situation really well though. Even though that's based on table top I'm wondering if they're going to borrow the ideas from MW Tactics to cut down on the alpha spam.

Edited by jakucha, 02 June 2013 - 09:39 AM.

[El Bandito]

PanchoTortilla, on 02 June 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

At the very least you should shut down for 10 seconds, or however long it takes for your excess heat to come down to 100%. Whichever is longer. The 3 second restart is nonsense. If you shut down in the air you should fall like a cannonball and take damage when your legs hit the ground, and then take extra damage when your mech flops over. If you shut down while running you should also fall and take damage. Yes, the shut down penalties are currently laughable. There's no reason not to run 4-6 PPCs and jump around.

Yeah and PGI even included "Quick Ignition" in mech tree for easymode lovers.

[Lootee]

jakucha, on 02 June 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

I don't think the problem is with shutdown penalties, though adding what OP suggested would be good. I think it's with the lack of penalities for using alpha with high damage weapons, too often. Mechwarrior Tactics currently handles the alpha situation really well though. Even though that's based on table top I'm wondering if they're going to borrow the ideas from MW Tactics to cut down on the alpha spam.

Shutting down mid jump or in plain view of the enemy should be one of those "Holy sh-- I'm going to die!" moments. Sadly in MWO it isn't.

This game just doesn't do a very good job of conveying the fear a MW is supposed to feel when he's stuck in a 65 ton metal coffin plummeting towards the ground from 100m in the air with no power to slow the descent, no gyro, and unable to control his mech's limbs.

Here shutting down in midair after hopping over a mound to fire 4 PPCs at someone is more of a @whee! I'll just land behind cover and not really take any damage lulz type of affair.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 02 June 2013 - 10:00 AM.

[WildeKarde]

Just mentioned on the another thread that shutting down should cut power to all energy weapons. When you power back up you should start the cooldown time from then to simulate energy going back into them.

[Nation Uprise]

Good job pointing this out OP. Never noticed it til this thread. Nothing should charge, jump jets or weapons, unless your mech is powered up. If PGI fixed this, then it would actually be a believeable and reasonable nerf for the alpha-strike and poptart builds. It'll make a longer delay in between all the jump, alpha, shutdown, jump, alpha, shutdown "advanced tactic" that those people use.

Edited by Nation Uprise, 02 June 2013 - 10:01 AM.

[Stimbles]

It'd be a good change to force all weapons to go through their recycle time after starting up.

[Deathlike]

I don't think that would dramatically change the reason for the 6 PPC Stalkers to exist.

I've never felt this was a problem in previous games either.. it just happens that the heat scale is so stupidly bad that it would sound like a good idea.

[YueFei]

Deathlike, on 02 June 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

I don't think that would dramatically change the reason for the 6 PPC Stalkers to exist.

I've never felt this was a problem in previous games either.. it just happens that the heat scale is so stupidly bad that it would sound like a good idea.

There's a trick to alpha yourself into shutdown (no override), wait a bit, then manually power-up and make a snapshot and manually power-down immediately again. This trick lets you continue to alpha snipe even after going over 100% heat. Because you're only powered up for a split second, you don't take much internal damage.

This trick would not be possible if you had to remain powered up for 4 seconds to recharge your weapons.

I have never used this trick in an actual game, but I've seen it mentioned by another player and confirmed that it can be done by trying it in the testing grounds. Once I went past 100% heat, I was able to alpha strike with all PPCs another 5 or 6 times before internal damage killed me. That's just completely silly and should not be possible. I consider it an exploit of the game's mechanics.

[Deathlike]

Oh... repeating the mistakes of MW4.

Welcome back to Y2K.

[jakucha]

PanchoTortilla, on 02 June 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

Shutting down mid jump or in plain view of the enemy should be one of those "Holy sh-- I'm going to die!" moments. Sadly in MWO it isn't.

This game just doesn't do a very good job of conveying the fear a MW is supposed to feel when he's stuck in a 65 ton metal coffin plummeting towards the ground from 100m in the air with no power to slow the descent, no gyro, and unable to control his mech's limbs.

Here shutting down in midair after hopping over a mound to fire 4 PPCs at someone is more of a @whee! I'll just land behind cover and not really take any damage lulz type of affair.

It would be pretty great if mechs fell over if they shutdown mid-air after falling is re-added, but I don't know if their gyros stay active or not.

[Taemien]

Interesting point. But I fail to see the benefit to the game, even though I think its a neat idea. Stuff recycles so quickly that you're just adding what? 2 seconds till the next alphastrike from a noob?

Can someone point out the game play benefits that this will have to warrant the amount of time it would take to code those lines? If I was a dev and knew this change would take 3 minutes to code and patch, I'm not convinced its even worth that little time. As a player I like the idea and wouldn't mind seeing it added. But I'm being a realist here and looking at it from a dev point of view.

[MasterErrant]

Stardancer01, on 02 June 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

Why do your weapons recharge & reload when your mech is shut down?

I’ve just noticed that my weapons don’t power down when my mech does and when I over heat after firing a weapon my weapon has recharged or reloaded while I was shut down.

Surely if you overheat your weapons should shut down and discharge and certainly not reload or recharge.

I have also noticed something funny happening with target lock as well

effectively because it's a little detail that is uimportant when half the game doesn't work.

Technically because nmose of those systems are buffered by capacitors and tohes keep functioning fora a time after the engine shuts down

Additionally this isn't a piston engine it's a lop of plasma spinning at several thousand miles per hour...it doesn't just stop. an actual shutdown to cold engine takes hours.
and the shutdown to break lock is a perversion of a TT rule.

Edited by MasterErrant, 04 June 2013 - 03:22 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Shutting down is more about preventing new inputs that would further strain the engine's power output (and thus spike your heat) than it is about actually turning off your power generation entirely. Weapons reloading and recharging while shut down makes plenty of sense to me.

[cyberFluke]

Spot the self-perceived "skilled" jump snipers....

[Screech]

They are part of a different union.

[OpCentar]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 02 June 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

Shutting down is more about preventing new inputs that would further strain the engine's power output (and thus spike your heat) than it is about actually turning off your power generation entirely. Weapons reloading and recharging while shut down makes plenty of sense to me.

It's contradictory with the fact that your mech is pretty much undetectable when shutdown.

Also the reactor goes offline? where does the power to charge PPC capacitors/feed ammo to ACs/reload missile racks/etc come from?

So no, my vote goes that our weapons do not work or cycle while the mech is in a shutdown state.



BTW, I'm amazed that nobody has thought about this until now.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Energy weapons don't use capacitors (and if they did capacitors charge extremely quickly anyways). They fire instantly from energy pulled directly from the fusion engine. The cool down time is just that, the time it takes for the weapons internals to get to a safe temperature where they can fire again. So, if the mech is shut down the weapon still cools down at the same rate or slightly faster.

For ballistic weapons (aside from the gauss rifle) it's the same sort of deal. The actual reloading is very quick, however the rate of fire is limited so that the barrel doesn't overheat and warp.

Edited by Narcissistic Martyr, 02 June 2013 - 05:21 PM.