88 replies to this topic

[kalabaddon]

thanks in advance for any info you find!

[MagnusEffect]

argh... stupid new page! check my last post on the page before this, i updated there. it might not be exactly what you are looking for, but it sounds pretty cool from what i've read.

[corpse256]

iGrok, on 07 June 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

Why do people on this forum always bring up WoT? Its like people here think there are no other F2P with Premuim games, and that this game will play exactly like WoT. I've played online games all my life (since I was 4 years old at least), ranging from Alfy/Shockwave/Candystand to XGen/Newgrounds to Kongregate/Addicting Games, I've played a lot of Freemium titles like Flyff/Runescape/Maplestory/LoL, I've played tank games and mech games and strategy games and FPS, and NOWHERE had I heard of WoT before I came to this site.

Now, everyone is worried that MWO will have "Gold Ammo" and "Super Mechs" and that we'll just have an arms race when the devs specifically added the information warfare dimension to the Mech series JUST TO COUNTER ARMS RACING.

I finally watched some youtube videos of WoT just to see what everyone was talking about, and it sucked. So why, why does everyone here apparently play it? And more to the point, why does everyone seem to think that MWO is being developed by the WoT studio?

Piranha Games IS NOT Wargaming.net. MWO is going to play nothing like WoT.

Stop bringing up a bad game that you all hate, and talk about MechWarrior instead.

First off people are being idiots to tell you the truth, if the people that watch the you tube developer commentaries they would learn right off the bat this game is NOT PAY TO WIN. This is a skill based game, only thing that will be premium is the mech skins and colors as far as I am concerned. No PAY FOR MECHS, NO SPECIAL AMMO, NO PAY TO WIN!! for the love that is all holy and MechWarrior stop comparing it to World of Tanks, two games are completely different.

Second off well...can't think of anything else. Plus stop trying to compare this to other Free to Play titles all the free to play titles that are out there today are basically pay to win or pay to get somewhere in their dumb game. As long as all the mechs are available for purchase through in game money I'm fine with that, maybe a few free skins for the mechs rent or pay that's fine with me. But every time I have to play a Free to Play game that I have to pay to get somewhere in it I quit playing it Immediately. Free to Play should encourage players to pay money by skins and extra costumes not to get somewhere in a mech game.

Edited by corpse256, 07 June 2012 - 10:17 PM.

[Kartr]

Shirefolk, on 07 June 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

Points I see being missed:
-Gold ammo is only salt in the wound. Nothing more. You can take it away and people that opposed WoT will still do so.

You're likely right since Gold ammo doesn't really effect pub matches and everyone in Clan wars uses it so no one there has an advantage.

Shirefolk, on 07 June 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

-Premium tanks do two things that are important. Cash machines. Cheap repairs, and money bonuses.

And there is nothing wrong with this. Cheap repairs and money bonuses do the exact same thing, they increase the number of credits a player has faster. This allows a player to buy new tanks, new modules, retrain crew and generally cut through the grind faster. Every non-sandbox MMO is a grind of some sort, and the F2P model leverages that to sell items that help speed the grind up. As long as speeding up the grind isn't accomplished through giving players more power then its ok. (unless the grind is insane and the cost for speeding up the grind is also insane of course)

MW:O should have premium 'Mechs and we know they already are going to have the four premium Founders 'Mechs. Premium 'Mechs don't give players an advantage in terms of power. Unlike WoT where a newb can only get into a high tier match is by driving a premium, newbs are going to be in every match learning how to play. Which makes me laugh when I think of how upset Battlecruiser gets when he talks about new players who don't know the strats for a map get on their premium tanks and get killed, often helping cost the battle. I laugh because Battlecruiser is going to have the chance to get those people in every single match he plays on MW:O.

Shirefolk, on 07 June 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

-As some others have pointed out, matchmaking. That is the biggest complaint. Where there is a 4-5 tier difference in one match, you know that only the top 30% of the tanks in the match will matter. That is no fun.

Only true for some premium tanks. The Tier 8 premiums will get the same tier maps as other tier 8 tanks, supposedly the Type is supposed to get slightly higher tiers which usually works out to it always being in tier 9-10 matches. While the KV-5 is "supposed" to get slightly lower tier matches (this may have changed after the armor upgrade) which generally means more tier 8-9 matches and fewer tier 10s when it gets a tier 10 match.

The T-14 on the other won't get a match above tier 5 unless its platooned with another tank that can. Which is good because the T-14 gun is a popgun that can only hurt another T-14 if you shoot the MG port on the upper glacis. Usually its the lower tier premiums that get the match making bonus.

Now the problem isn't that lower tier premiums can get the top tier of the map easier, its in having tiers at all. Or rather having such a large spread of tiers in a fight. The current spread last time I seemed to be a 5 tier spread, so you could theoretically have tier 6 mediums/heavies in with tier 10 tanks. If the tiers were kept to a 3 tier spread, so tier 8-10 plus tier 6 arty and tier 7 lights then it would be more fair. Since in a three tier spread most vehicles can damage each other consistently.

Now MW:O doesn't have tiers so this will never be a problem, every 'Mech will be able to damage every 'Mech.

Shirefolk, on 07 June 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

-Buying better matchmaking via premium accounts. So you can be more likely to be on top of the lists and stomp others.

What? This simply isn't true, I usually play premium and my Tiger II more often than not gets stuck in tier 10 matches. All a premium account does in WoT is let me invite two people into my platoon instead of one and give me a 50% boost on my credit and xp earnings. So all a premium account really does is make the grind go faster, convenience not power.

MW:O is going to have premium accounts as well it should. They are a great way to earn revenue as the essentially act like paid subscriptions, and they don't give power since they only increase xp and C-bills earned.

Shirefolk, on 07 June 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

-Finally, the experience grind ramps up insane amounts. Unless you are buying gold, converting the daily bonus exp to free exp, and perhaps using a premium tank, then you will be doom to a horribly long grinding experience about halfway through the tier lists.

Yes this is a problem and supposedly they've revamped the higher tiers to make them slightly less expensive and possibly slightly less experience intensive. Having made my way up to the E-75 I am intimately aware of how grindy it gets. Of course that encourages people to buy premium accounts, buy garage slots so they can work on other tanks, and generally spend the money the game needs to bring in, in order to remain a viable product.

People seem to get upset any time a F2P game makes them choose between spending time or money. This doesn't make any sense in P2P games you had to spend your time and your money. F2P games have to make money as well or they go away, they do this by encouraging the player to spend money in order to reduce inconveniences. At least you get to choose when, where and how much you're going to spend and if you have more time you don't have to spend anything at all.

Shirefolk, on 07 June 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

In conclusion:
WoT is not a bad game. However, it does it's best to pressure users into buying gold to make their experience more bearable. I love blowing **** up in that game. But I am counting the days to MWO. The grinding in WoT and the matchmaking just drive me batty.

MW:O is going to have its own grindy aspects I guarantee it. Did you notice how the xp system works in MW:O? You have to grind up every variant of a 'Mech in order to research the 'Mech elite 1 slot, then you have to grind them all up again in order to unlock 'Mech elite 2. You have to level up your pilot in order to unlock abilities and modules. In order to get 1 point for your pilot you have to research an entire tier of efficiences on one 'Mech.

MW:O will have its own grindy areas and will encourage you to spend real money on it. Premium accounts so you level every 'Mech you own faster, premium 'Mechs so that you can level your pilot faster, probably premium 'Mechs that are very rare in the IS so they can tap in on everyone who wants to drive an Annihilator, etc.

MagnusEffect, on 07 June 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

How is "pay to win" gold ammo (as in, pay real money for a real advantage in dps) and $50 for ONE ******* tank a good thing? yeah, i know it is optional, but it looks highly exploitive; a cash grab. How can you justify buying a single tank for the same cost as as an entire game?... hell... for $50 bucks you could buy TWO good games.

I don't think anyone really likes the prices and I'm surprised anyone defends them. That being said its economics, there is a demand for premium tanks and Wargaming has found that enough people are willing to pay $50 to buy a Lowe. Since WoT is currently the only game that lets you hop in a match with vehicles and just go blow other vehicles up in a slower paced sort of FPS they have a monopoly and can pretty much charge whatever they want. They could probably actually sell them for higher, but what they've found is that selling them at their current price points is where they sell the most. That's why the tier 8's sell for more than the tier 5's because people are more willing to pay for a tier 8 tank. However I'm willing to bet that when MW:O comes out and offers premium 'Mechs for less than that, Wargaming will lower the prices of premium tanks in order to compete.

Gold ammo on the other hand doesn't really have an effect on most players since it isn't used in pub matches. It is only really used by "elite" players doing clan battles. "Elite" players are always willing to spend more on a game to get any little edge and their gold ammo purchases for Clan Wars helps keep the game free for everyone else which makes gold ammo good.

MagnusEffect, on 07 June 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

I will give WoT credit for a pretty cool damage system that works MOST of the time, but the matchmaking is **** and the "subscription" cost is WAY overpriced... and even then your options and gametypes are woefully limited. Buying a month is about $15 last time I checked... What. The. ****?! They charge AAA MMO prices for a game that isn't even a "real" MMO. The overall experience is shallow and just an exercise in masochism. Frankly, I'm amazed at the number of dumbasses who spent over $100 on it and I'm amazed at the number of people out there who defend this trite crap and games like it.

I'm so glad MWO is striving for something WAY better.

They can charge those prices because they're the only game in the niche, they have a monopoly over this type of game. MW:O is entering that market and that will most likely drive the WoT prices down as the two games compete for the same player base. The competition between the two games should work out well for us the player base because it will lower prices and encourage both companies to continue to develop new game modes and content.

So while I would expect that we will find MW:O is grindy in one way or another and sells premium accounts for more than you feel is fair for a game with limited game types, it would surprise me if MW:O wasn't less expensive and offered more features. This is how capitalism works and its a beautiful thing! (You'd never get MW:O in a socialist or communist society.)

[Name140704]

Don, on 07 June 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

Does anyone else find it ironic that the OP hates talking about wot, yet has created a thread about it? Contributing to its discussion? Hypocrites will be hypocrites.

Thinking the same thing. I still dislike Wot regardless.

[Kartr]

corpse256, on 07 June 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

First off people are being idiots to tell you the truth, if the people that watch the you tube developer commentaries they would learn right off the bat this game is NOT PAY TO WIN. This is a skill based game, only thing that will be premium is the mech skins and colors as far as I am concerned. No PAY FOR MECHS, NO SPECIAL AMMO, NO PAY TO WIN!! for the love that is all holy and MechWarrior stop comparing it to World of Tanks, two games are completely different.

WoT is not pay to win and these games share the same game concept, slower paced tactical FPS, based around arena style matches, utilizing a F2P. There are already four 'Mechs you can only get by paying real money, the Operation Inception versions of the Catapult, Jenner, Hunchback and Atlas. Those 'Mechs earn more money and supposedly have a different hard point lay out than the other versions.

corpse256, on 07 June 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

Second off well...can't think of anything else. Plus stop trying to compare this to other Free to Play titles all the free to play titles that are out there today are basically pay to win or pay to get somewhere in their dumb game. As long as all the mechs are available for purchase through in game money I'm fine with that, maybe a few free skins for the mechs rent or pay that's fine with me. But every time I have to play a Free to Play game that I have to pay to get somewhere in it I quit playing it Immediately. Free to Play should encourage players to pay money by skins and extra costumes not to get somewhere in a mech game.

Every game makes you pay to get somewhere, every MMO that utilizes a subscription model forces you to pay just to be able to go anywhere. Free to Play games may allow you to pay to increase your rate of travel, or to unlock certain areas, but they never force you if you have patience and most let you go everywhere the paying players do, it just takes longer.

Sorry I probably shouldn't have pointed out that subscription models force you to pay to go anywhere in them, you have to quit playing them now. Oh well at least you still have single player games! Except that you have to pay to go anywhere and do anything in them to, so never mind I guess you have to quit playing those to. Have fun with freecell, solitaire and minesweeper!

[corpse256]

Kartr, on 07 June 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

WoT is not pay to win and these games share the same game concept, slower paced tactical FPS, based around arena style matches, utilizing a F2P. There are already four 'Mechs you can only get by paying real money, the Operation Inception versions of the Catapult, Jenner, Hunchback and Atlas. Those 'Mechs earn more money and supposedly have a different hard point lay out than the other versions.


Every game makes you pay to get somewhere, every MMO that utilizes a subscription model forces you to pay just to be able to go anywhere. Free to Play games may allow you to pay to increase your rate of travel, or to unlock certain areas, but they never force you if you have patience and most let you go everywhere the paying players do, it just takes longer.

Sorry I probably shouldn't have pointed out that subscription models force you to pay to go anywhere in them, you have to quit playing them now. Oh well at least you still have single player games! Except that you have to pay to go anywhere and do anything in them to, so never mind I guess you have to quit playing those to. Have fun with freecell, solitaire and minesweeper!

um... I don't know about the inception mechs but seems like they are just different skins not better versions of the mechs themselves.

Plus with any game I pay for buddy I get all the content in the game for free(except for Add On content which is optional for more game play experiences other than boosters). But paying for game is obvious that your paying for whatever content is in the game. And a reason why I don't play subscription based games cause they are all garbage any Free to Play RPG game is just as bad as the one you payed your hard earned $50 for 6 months of play time. This is the exact reason I'm buying Guild Wars 2. Back on topic, Obviously they shouldn't call them Free to Play because in the case you pointed out your still paying for something. At least the 3 games you mentioned at the end of your post actually are pure Free to Play games. And you don't have to be a ***** about it buddy I'm just pointing out the obvious in Free to Play titles. I know you have to pay for something to keep the game free but why Preimium mechs and crap when you can have just skins like in Realm of The Mad God or extra inventory space. Game is free no premium items to purchase you have to find the stuff on your own. Please keep Mechs Free and some skins for free. I'd be glad to pay for a skin but not for a mech keep that in mind Piranha Games.

[Kartr]

corpse256, on 07 June 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

um... I don't know about the inception mechs but seems like they are just different skins not better versions of the mechs themselves.

They earn more C-Bills per battle, go look at the Operation Inception page. Also I never said anything about them being better just different.

corpse256, on 07 June 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

Plus with any game I pay for buddy I get all the content in the game for free(except for Add On content which is optional for more game play experiences other than boosters). But paying for game is obvious that your paying for whatever content is in the game.

LMAO!! You get everything you pay for, for free!! HAHAHHHAHAHAAH!! Wow dude I think you need some caffeine or sleep! You can't get what you pay for, for free because they're mutually exclusive! You either pay for it or you get it for free not both. Lol too funny, you made my night dude.

corpse256, on 07 June 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

And a reason why I don't play subscription based games cause they are all garbage any Free to Play RPG game is just as bad as the one you payed your hard earned $50 for 6 months of play time. This is the exact reason I'm buying Guild Wars 2.

Ah so you're not willing to pay over the long term for access to a game, despite the fact that the game has to pay for the servers, the salaries, etc., despite the fact that their costs keep accruing. Instead you want to pay for your item once, and then rely on other peoples cash shop purchases to fund the game so you can keep playing. How is that any different than playing a F2P and never using the store so that other people pay for your entertainment? It isn't really.

corpse256, on 07 June 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

Back on topic, Obviously they shouldn't call them Free to Play because in the case you pointed out your still paying for something.

No you don't, it just takes you a lot longer to get the things you want if you play entirely for free. They are Free to Play, it just is less convenient for the player who plays it for free.

corpse256, on 07 June 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

At least the 3 games you mentioned at the end of your post actually are pure Free to Play games. And you don't have to be a ***** about it buddy I'm just pointing out the obvious in Free to Play titles.

You claimed that all F2P titles out there are Pay 2 Win or Pay to "get anywhere" and I was pointing that not only is that not true, but every game you play you have to pay for. Which means every game forces you to pay to get anywhere (even if its just in). You were being hyperbolic and irrational about it, so I replied with a hefty dose of sarcasm. Sarcasm =/= being an ***** about it, especially when you're making wildly accusations and sweeping generalizations that simply aren't true.

corpse256, on 07 June 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

I know you have to pay for something to keep the game free but why Preimium mechs and crap when you can have just skins like in Realm of The Mad God or extra inventory space. Game is free no premium items to purchase you have to find the stuff on your own. Please keep Mechs Free and some skins for free. I'd be glad to pay for a skin but not for a mech keep that in mind Piranha Games.

Well there's no inventory like in WoW, so can't really sell that, skins aren't enough to support a game by themselves so you have to find something else. WoT of tanks has proven that people are willing to pay for premium accounts and premium vehicles. Premium 'Mechs don't give you an advantage on the battlefield so they're not "Pay to Win," and if you're willing to pay for a cool looking paint job why aren't you willing to pay for a cool looking 'Mech? Especially when not only is the 'Mech optional (no need to buy it if you don't like it), but not only does it look cool, it can make you some extra money.

Premium Accounts
Premium 'Mechs
Extra paint colors
Extra paint schemes
Extra logo's
Extra 'Mech slots

Those are the obvious things to sell in the Cash Shop. I'm sure there are others but I can't think of any right now.

[OziBatla]

Don't see why everyones getting twisted up over WoT

I'll be playing both, hoping MW:O will at least be as good as WoT, if not better

There's room for 2 games, when i get sick of Tanks I'll just move onto Mechs and viceversa...

Win Win as far as i see it. Bring on the Mechs!

[gotthammer]

Yeah. I don't see what the fuss is all about. I'll be playing both when MWO comes out. I'm also waiting on Hawken (also F2P, I think), and wargaming's World of Warplanes, and, most appealing to me, World of BATTLESHIPS.
(I hope there are schnellbooten )

[Sundiver]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Freemium model in general. WoT is not pay to win, I can't forsee that happening here either. Should they cater somewhat to the players willing to pay them to develop and support the game over those just playing a free game? Absolutely. Should those same paying customers receive some slight advantages over people who don't pay? Absolutely. Since without paying customers neither game would exist.

I'll guarantee you that the people at Pirhana nor those at Wargaming no matter how passionate they may be about their games are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts so people can have a free game that cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars to develop, to play. Like any good business model they see the opportunity to make money while doing something they enjoy.

Edited by Sundiver, 10 June 2012 - 12:20 PM.

[iBlaspheme]

XenomorphZZ, on 07 June 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

Im guessing you're also Battlecruiser from wot?

Hello Battle and Xeno ...

I hope that MWO has a robust tournament environment like WoT. Or at least some type of metagame like WoT's Clanwars.
WoT low tier tournaments have been some of the most intense gameplaying I have ever experienced.

As to comparing WoT to MWO, they will be extremely similar except probably for the gold ammo.

[Cur]

Its a **** pay to win game.


A bunch of people that played that have for some reason come over here to mechwarrior.


they've also been trying to demand alot of aspects of that ****** game get incorporated into MWO.


thank god the developers are ignoring them like the scum they are.

[0 Tharn 0]

I don't think there is anything wrong with Wot.
so what if people get to spend real money to get better ammo- and quicker rise in the ranks.. its that money that allows the rest fo the players to play for free. and you cans till impact battles without having premium account or ammo.
People need to quit whining about wallet warriors and the rest that go's with it.

I really enjoy being able to log in a get a few battles in before I goto work and I will enjoy doing the same in MWo- but dont ever think these guy's aren't out to make money too. It's a business. You just worry about how cool the game is and how much fun your having and quit thinking about how greedy developers are- It's a business. It's called Capitalism-- and it's not going anywhere.

[0 Tharn 0]

Reading all the posts while I was posting my reply- Im happy to see many other rational people commenting.
MWO_ has a good base of intelligent people for the most part in the community-that will only help the game's longevity.

[mattkachu]

I have a few problems with WoT
1. RNG - random number generator, we all know this guy, he often hi-jacks your account with his 25% up/down bogus.

2. Matchmaker is designed to bring people out of earlier tiers as quick as possible. We've all been at the bottom of the list and start thinking," well if i had the next tier tank i'd be higher". That leads to the "arms race" that MWo said it wouldnt be. Granted some tanks in WoT have good match making, (marder 2, churchill, t-127, and su-85b) players will try to get outta low tiers fast.

Problems with this? Players advance faster than they really learn the game mechanics, this problem is ten fold with premium accounts and tanks because now these players are put in situations that the team will need to depend on each other and they cant pull up even their own weight.

[Slim Grady]

Dear tankers feel free to be target practice.

with much love

-Mechwarrior

so would a mech be tier 9001?

[BushFire]

They way the debs describe the skill tree is very very similar to WOT. I wonder why is that.

[iBlaspheme]

Slim Grady, on 16 June 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

Dear tankers feel free to be target practice.

with much love

-Mechwarrior

so would a mech be tier 9001?

It seems you do not grasp the fact that MWO will be a group game, and coordinated play will win the day. The tankers that are coming over from WoT will have almost 2 years of playing together.
This is not going to be a FPS like CoD where one player can dominate.

[mattkachu]

Hey Blaspheme.
Well, WoT is a team game, but you and i know that pub matches are almost "every man for themselves" as you can get. Try to give advice and some guy will tell you ****.
I dont think many of the WoT CW warriors are gonna ditch their game to come here, but you never know. The more the better i'd say, that way mwo match maker doesnt 'splode in failure