I agree with OP and OP's suggestions. I think that a similar approach to the combat role (or part of the scouting role) could be taken by doubling or tripling the amount of time it takes to acquire detailed targeting information sans-modules. If you want to find the weak point and aim for it (in a timely manner), make it your role, equip the proper modules / skills!
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Excessive Sensor Range Is Preventing Role Warfare (Scouting)
Started by Sable Dove, Jun 03 2013 02:34 PM
44 replies to this topic
#42
Posted 04 June 2013 - 08:23 AM
Interesting.
Look at UAVs. Their sensor range is 240m.
So. Make all mechs have a base short sensor range of 300m?
If you want to have a longer senor range you can purchase medium-range sensors which replace the existing sensors in the head and extend your range to 600m.
If you want more you can buy long-range sensors which intend your range to 900m
The cost of each equipment varies by the tonnage of your mech so its fairly cheap for light mechs but expensive as hell for heavier units.
And it would be treated like Endo. So you can't transfer it to another mech and if you want to take it off it would cost $.
Doesn't necessarily stop big mechs from having big sensor ranges but it makes it far more costly.
Heck you could event potentially restrict some mechs to being able to mount only certain sensors.
Look at UAVs. Their sensor range is 240m.
So. Make all mechs have a base short sensor range of 300m?
If you want to have a longer senor range you can purchase medium-range sensors which replace the existing sensors in the head and extend your range to 600m.
If you want more you can buy long-range sensors which intend your range to 900m
The cost of each equipment varies by the tonnage of your mech so its fairly cheap for light mechs but expensive as hell for heavier units.
And it would be treated like Endo. So you can't transfer it to another mech and if you want to take it off it would cost $.
Doesn't necessarily stop big mechs from having big sensor ranges but it makes it far more costly.
Zyllos, on 03 June 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:
Maybe sensor ranges should be different on a per mech basis?
Lighter mechs generally have longer sensor ranges while heavier ones have shorter ones. You can obviously have exceptions to the rule.
Lighter mechs generally have longer sensor ranges while heavier ones have shorter ones. You can obviously have exceptions to the rule.
Heck you could event potentially restrict some mechs to being able to mount only certain sensors.
Edited by topgun505, 04 June 2013 - 08:30 AM.
#43
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Posted 04 June 2013 - 08:50 AM
Attempts to wedge lights firmly into a "scouting role" will likely never produce satisfying results outside of organized games (if even there). Fundamentally, scouting is something that is done mainly before forces are even deployed, but we automatically know the most important things about the opposing team as teams are assembled: numbers (possibly minus 1 for disconnects once the match starts), rough composition of weights (some lights, some assaults, mix of medium and heavy), deployment area, and loadouts (will be inclined towards whatever the popular metagame is).
The only thing that can really be scouted once a MWO battle begins is the exact direction the majority of the opponent takes immediately after the match starts. But you only want one person to do this (any more is a waste), and it need not be a light mech; a light can just do it faster, but since nothing can be done about a unified moving force until the heavy\assault mechs get into position the speed advantage is somewhat irrelevant. And since there is basically no reason not to immediately seek to engage the enemy, most teams don't bother with subterfuge anyway - they just take the straightest path towards the enemy drop zone. There just isn't much to gain from more advanced tactics, matches are only 15 minutes long, and few players are going to cooperate with someone trying to get fancy when just walking up and dumping shots into the other team works just as well, if not better.
Even spotting doesn't really present much of a purpose for lights. For spotting to do so, LRMs and other weapons would have to be quite dangerous as long-range indirect fire, strong enough that having only one or two missile carriers is enough to justify having a player slot dedicated to TAG\NARC efforts (and little else, as you typically cannot maintain either while attempting to fight at the same time). Missiles would also need to be able to bypass all but the most obstructing terrain, at the very least when seeking TAGged or NARCed targets. It is unlikely that LRMs are going to be such a decisive weapon, which also means there is little reason to lose a player slot to someone who is, at best, merely putting one or two enemies on radar once and a while for the occasional extra missile salvo. An additional downside of the spotting task is that only missile carriers care about targetting and sighting; snipers do not need a lock-on and brawlers will either be able to lock on due to proximity or not care.
The only way lights will ever fit as scouts, as I see it, is under the following circumstances:
An organized play mode (possibly CW) might attempt to force "light roles" as well, as if you need to capture an objective within 2 minutes or lose it, or keep a TAG on a certain fast target until timed off-map artillery hits, or whatever, then the advantages of light mechs might be necessary for player teams to include in their rosters. But the PUG game needs to be much more general and blunt.
The only thing that can really be scouted once a MWO battle begins is the exact direction the majority of the opponent takes immediately after the match starts. But you only want one person to do this (any more is a waste), and it need not be a light mech; a light can just do it faster, but since nothing can be done about a unified moving force until the heavy\assault mechs get into position the speed advantage is somewhat irrelevant. And since there is basically no reason not to immediately seek to engage the enemy, most teams don't bother with subterfuge anyway - they just take the straightest path towards the enemy drop zone. There just isn't much to gain from more advanced tactics, matches are only 15 minutes long, and few players are going to cooperate with someone trying to get fancy when just walking up and dumping shots into the other team works just as well, if not better.
Even spotting doesn't really present much of a purpose for lights. For spotting to do so, LRMs and other weapons would have to be quite dangerous as long-range indirect fire, strong enough that having only one or two missile carriers is enough to justify having a player slot dedicated to TAG\NARC efforts (and little else, as you typically cannot maintain either while attempting to fight at the same time). Missiles would also need to be able to bypass all but the most obstructing terrain, at the very least when seeking TAGged or NARCed targets. It is unlikely that LRMs are going to be such a decisive weapon, which also means there is little reason to lose a player slot to someone who is, at best, merely putting one or two enemies on radar once and a while for the occasional extra missile salvo. An additional downside of the spotting task is that only missile carriers care about targetting and sighting; snipers do not need a lock-on and brawlers will either be able to lock on due to proximity or not care.
The only way lights will ever fit as scouts, as I see it, is under the following circumstances:
- It is impossible to know anything about the other team prior to someone seeing them in-game
- Teams are variable enough that you can never just assume you are facing a certain composition
- TAGging\NARCing are tools that enable decisive use of certain weapon systems, in such a way that even if the light is killed quickly after making the attempt (likely) the enemy can still suffer
- Map objectives and mechanics are set up in such a way that you need to know what enemies are doing, and where they are, and there are enough distinctive routes and options that you cannot just assume a single path
- Scouting remains relevant through the entire span of the match, through a combination of the above plus possibly other features
An organized play mode (possibly CW) might attempt to force "light roles" as well, as if you need to capture an objective within 2 minutes or lose it, or keep a TAG on a certain fast target until timed off-map artillery hits, or whatever, then the advantages of light mechs might be necessary for player teams to include in their rosters. But the PUG game needs to be much more general and blunt.
#44
Posted 04 June 2013 - 02:13 PM
scJazz, on 04 June 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:
It was a good post. Very detailed. Lots of modes and buttons. Approximately, 1000x more complicated that reasonable in a match that lasts 7 mins, 2 spent finding the enemy and getting in range and 2 spent hunting down the last guy.
Still there is gold to be mined.
Actually there is only one additional mode and one button. Active and passive sensors. All the rest of the post was about how the computer handles targeting in a new way with this and how it relates to all the other electronics and vision modes we already have.
So not complicated at all.
#45
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Posted 04 June 2013 - 02:32 PM
Joseph Mallan, on 04 June 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:
Easy for you to say Buddy. You have that nice lil Macro that spams the "R"! We can start capping within secons of you finding the enemy. 
Shhhh: It's my super power; Don't tell anybody …
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