15 replies to this topic

[BaconCouch]

I thought I'd give my hand at an 8T variant brawler build. Now including 4lpls!
Any feedback is appreciated.

"Gladiator"

BaconCouch

[Sathaless]

AWS-8T

Higher firepower, faster, and better cooling efficiency. LPL and ML have good symmetry with similar ranges and CDs. If you dont like the head MPL, you can always drop it for another ton of SRM ammo and full leg armor.

[BaconCouch]

Hrm, the Srm shotgun effect is good, however, i figured 40 pinpoint damage would make that build devestating.
Our heat efficiencies were equal. And yours is indeed faster.
What about my build could use some tweaking?

[Aethos]

AWS-8T-SCARFACE

My only real concern with your build is the heat management. With 4 LPLs you really aren't going to be able to alpha more than maybe once during an engagement. Also I wouldn't use anything less than the STD300.

My build uses more of a mixture of range while keeping the brawling alpha high and the heat low. Lets be honest, as an AWS brawler, you will be spending 5x more time dealing damage in under 300m, than you will at 600m.

This build has been getting me multiple 750+ dmg games and its kill rate is better than any of my other brawlers. The pulses used 1 after the other do a great job of softening up a component (32 dmg) and then the ASRM10 gets right into the internals.

And believe me, I would LOVE to run 4 LPLs effectively in an AWS. However I feel you would need at least 23 DHS to be able to keep up with that sort of heat. My 9M with 22 DHS and the XL380 runs 3 LPLs and 1 MPLs and it has a 52% HE, and although I alpha everytime, it can get hot after about 4-5 alphas depending on map.

Edited by Aethos, 13 June 2013 - 10:18 AM.

[Autobot9000]

I am running an extremely similar loadout, except that I use 4 PPCs isntead of the 4LPLs. Why?

After getting enough games on AWS variants to gain elite skills on them and generally trying every possible loadout I am currently convinced, that PPCs are the best main weapons for any AWS variant and I am inclined to generalize that to the utmost extent. Why is that?

1) You are a huge target -> You want to -> [Hit -> torso twist/duck n cover/hit and run] [repeat] This is simply the best supported by PPCs. You are forced to use this tactic bc of your size and your problems with managing your heat (which is due to your hardpoints). So from my POV this is dictated by the chassis+hardpoint layout.

2) As opposed to public opinion you absolutely can take lots of hits in the front, you just cant be in brawling range, because your loadout and silhouette are bad for brawling. Hence you can absolutely be on the frontline on any distance above 300m (above AC/20 / brawling range).

3) Because of your huge profile you're awful as a brawler, no matter what loadout, if you are running 4xLL+4xSRM6 in an R variant or just pulse lasers, doesn't matter. The 2nd reason being that for continuous fire (that brawlers need) you simply can't deliver, because you don't sport a ballistic hardpoint. IMO you need a gauss/autocannon in your build, if you wan't to be a good brawler. There is no single laserboat/SRM build that can compete with AC/Gauss brawlers (that can often sport SRMs on top as well), because you overheat too much.


This was a long lesson for me to learn, but AWS variants are best for sniping. The variant, that I have most success with is this
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b99bdf9a439ee23

Howto play that variant? Group the PPCs for each arm separately, so you will always fire 2 PPCs at once. This way you can minimize lag/delay/focus fire problems and you can fire from behind the corner with your arms and manage your heat.

Mind that this build is made for PUGs. If you are running with an actual team and you are on teamspeak you should swap that reactor for a 300std and drop the SSRMs for 20(?) DHS and just 4 PPCs. In PUGs you unfortunately can't rely on your team mates enough to drop the SSRMs.


Edit:
I also love LPLs, but they aren't viable in MWO. Even with 22 DHS you can't manage 4 LPLs sufficiently and I have tried to maximize heat dissipation as much as humanly possible, LPLs just dont work. Maybe they work in conjuction with cool weapons like Gauss, but they aren't reliable main DPS deliverer as a LPL-mono build, because it's impossible to manage their heat sufficiently to rely on them in brawling on any mech.

Edited by Autobot9000, 13 June 2013 - 10:45 AM.

[BaconCouch]

Fair enough gents, thank you for the feedback.
Just theorycrafting here, I haven't bought the mech yet. I may look into a highlander instead, who knows.

[Autobot9000]

Another point that certainly supports PPCs over LLs or LPLs:

I trust you're an awesome pilot, but focus fireing on enemy hitboxes (arms, legs, CT, right torsoing atlas-D brawlers or highlanders) is easier with PPCs than with any kind of laser no matter how good you can pilot. You wouldn't imagine just how many more (mech/component) kills you get by simply switching into PPCs. Especially when you group the PPCs (2 per arm) like I do you will get a big bonus from this kind of fire concentration. It's the micro scale of focus fireing (macro scale being a lance focus fireing a single enemy mech).

Edit:
I can recommend a 733c highlander for brawling
AC/20
2x LPL
and either 3x SSRM or 3x SRM6
with JJs, a sufficiently large engine and enough AC20 ammo this thing is quite brutal.

Edited by Autobot9000, 13 June 2013 - 11:15 AM.

[BaconCouch]

Autobot9000, on 13 June 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Another point that certainly supports PPCs over LLs or LPLs:

I trust you're an awesome pilot, but focus fireing on enemy hitboxes (arms, legs, CT, right torsoing atlas-D brawlers or highlanders) is easier with PPCs than with any kind of laser no matter how good you can pilot. You wouldn't imagine just how many more (mech/component) kills you get by simply switching into PPCs. Especially when you group the PPCs (2 per arm) like I do you will get a big bonus from this kind of fire concentration. It's the micro scale of focus fireing (macro scale being a lance focus fireing a single enemy mech).

Edit:
I can recommend a 733c highlander for brawling
AC/20
2x LPL
and either 3x SSRM or 3x SRM6
with JJs, a sufficiently large engine and enough AC20 ammo this thing is quite brutal.

The irony of this being I run a 733c with an AC 20, x3 srm 6's, and two ER PPCs lol, its a very strong build

[Aethos]

Im going to have to disagree with autobot on the LPL vs PPC debacle. First off, Bacon was asking for an AWS Brawler build, not an AWS Sniper build which you are recommending.

Secondly, IMO having attempted PPCs in my brawler PB, 9M, and 8R, I just can't find them that effective at producing massive amounts of damage which is what all AWS variants thrive at. PPC builds tend to get a few more kills since they can be more pinpoint, however this is neutered by AWS variants ability to carry lots of ASRMs which I'd argue are just as killshot capable. Then there is the heat and cooldown. For me, my avg dmg drops nearly in half when attempting PPC builds compared to LPL for brawling.

To say that LPL's are completely ineffective at the moment in MWO is false. Here's all my brawler builds, all of which use LPL as main weapons. All of which have gotten me at least 750+ avg dmg games. My 9M with 3 LPL has gotten me up to 972 dmg, and the PB 950.

PRETTY BABY

AWS-9M

AWS-8R

AWS-8T

[Autobot9000]

I don't think it's ironic, that I recommend LPLs on that Highlander build nor did I say I would label LPLs completely ineffective as a whole, what I did say is the following:

Maybe they work in conjuction with cool weapons like Gauss, but they aren't reliable main DPS deliverer as a LPL-mono build, because it's impossible to manage their heat sufficiently to rely on them in brawling on any mech.

I would reaffirm, that I find all AWS models awful for brawling, hence I am suggesting sniper builds, which the AWS is great at. I ran e.g. a AWS-8R in various configurations, one of them being LPLs and 4x SRM6 (w and w/o Artemis) and it was just bad, because you're such a huge target, you're being shot apart in no time. SRMs also don't help you, if your opponents carry them too but carry a huge ballistic gun and laugh at your heat issues. That doesn't mean, that you wouldn't be able to get one or another game with 4 kills and 700 damage, but on average other mechs just do that job gazillion times better. IMO you do need an AC10/Gauss/AC20 on a brawler and support that with lasers/SRMs. I would limit by statements in so far, that I was assuming you were looking for a competitive build.

[Autobot9000]

@Aethos in the variant you posted only your 9M uses LPLs really as the main stay. In the other variants LPLs appear in some sort of mix and I must say the 9M is really terrible. Your pretty baby uses a single LPL. Your 8R and 8T variant loadouts aren't good loadouts, I tried that too and was way less than impressed. The best loadouts for AWS variants I have experienced are the

4 PPC sniper (PPC on arms in 8T)
5 LL laser boat on 8Q
LRM boat on either 8T or 8R, altho other mechs fill that role better (catapult, stalker)

[Aethos]

Autobot9000, on 13 June 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

I also love LPLs, but they aren't viable in MWO.

Said You.

And you really should hold your tongue before calling someone else's highly effective brawling builds bad. Maybe you're just bad at brawling?? You must have been one of those AWS pilots that tries leading the charge and then calls the AWS a bad brawler when it gets face wrecked. Any real AWS brawler pilot knows better. Maybe I can link you a couple guides on here to help out your strategy.

Again, I'm going to reiterate that the OP was asking for a BRAWLER build and you keep trying to shove a sniper build down his throat. And since you want to go there, I'm gonna go ahead and label your posted "Sniper" build as a BAD build. The heat efficiency is horrible, and your only salvation when something big starts face hugging you at under 50m is 2 streaks? That wouldnt even scare off an ECM spider. GG. And as a final comment on snipers in general, If you really think that an AWS's best role is a sniper, then I fear for your teammates, as your mobility with an STD280 is horrible, and with low slung arms the only way to effectively snipe, is to stand full frontal, and that silhouette is not hard for anyone with an ERPPC, LL, Gauss to hit.

And I must have been confused when you said LPL monobuild. Mono meaning 1? 1 what? 1 weapon? 1 weapon type? Ofcourse all my other builds use supporting weapons like MPLs and ASRMs, you'd be a fool not to given the hardpoints on most of the AWS mechs and the cooling capacities. The only capable LPL only AWS is the 9M because of the cooling capabilities with an XL380, its speed, its torso twist and its hardpoint location all of which make it an excellent semi-zombie brawler build.

Your favorite variants are the 8T, 8Q, and 8R so I'm going to assume either a) you don't have a PB/9M or b ) you are just bad at playing them, because they are brawlers, and you are bad at brawling.

btw, id love to see your 8R build where you claim to have 2 LPL and 4 artemis SRM6. That 33% heat efficiency must have been fun. I'm sure your opponents were laughing at your heat issues as you said they would. Or you got your HE up to a whopping 35%, but dropped ammo down to a mere 12-13 volleys worth. Either way, it's no wonder you hated it.

and lastly, the 8R is possibly the best burst damage LRM boat there is. At least mine is. Yours probably had heat issues since I'm sure you tried putting a PPC in the gun arm.

Edited by Aethos, 14 June 2013 - 12:32 PM.

[Mazzyplz]

this is my 8T brawler:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e5d9c106c66a11f


i did run with streaks but it's lame when you can't shoot them because of ECM.
instead of the 4th LPL, 1 medlas and 1ERLL fill in the gaps where LPL is either out of range or too hot

it's over nine hundreeeed:


people say my builds are too hot but they know jack-****.

i got like a hundred screenies like this. i would post my other awesome builds but someone is bound to say they suck because they're too hot, despite averaging 500dmg per match

Edited by Mazzyplz, 14 June 2013 - 07:54 PM.

[Mazzyplz]

oh and there's nothing wrong with ppc in the 8R arm. i run 2x ER PPC on my 8R arm, and 4 srm6 with artemis, and 1 med pulse laser on the head. i think most of you would just overheat and explode in the first 5 seconds so don't try it.

[aniviron]

I think you'll find it hard to be just a 4ppc build with no frills and lots of heatsinks, std300; it will kill or leg lights in one shot. Same as the 8Q but with the PPCs in the arms.

Personally, I run http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3b6c54ee364f348 as my 8T brawler though. You save eight tons by switching from lpl to llas, and the extra range keeps me alive much better. The srm6s run a bit hotter than the srm2s, but you can afford to pack in more heatsinks and a bigger engine, and when you have reached your heat cap after cutting into them with the llas, 12 asrm is pretty respectable damage while you cool down for the lasers. It's a good build right now, but when SRMs get put back to a reasonable damage like they once were, it's pretty brutal.

[Autobot9000]

Apart from getting personal I dont see much arguments to support your claims.