33 replies to this topic

[GreyGriffin]

Let's have an in-depth look at...

The Victor


Now that a new mech is coming out, it's time for everyone's favorite game.

Art Analysis.


Headshot



Historically not the Victor's most flattering angle, it has a pretty distinctive look. The new helmet has a very similar profile. I particularly like the "cheek plate" accents and the overall negative slope of the windscreen. However, ine thing that's consistent in the Victor artwork is the rounded shape of the face, and I think that's been lost here. I think there is a missed opportunity here to get the rounded smooth glass cockpit, and break in a new style of 'mech. Or at least a cockpit with fewer struts.


Torso



Dude has been working OUT. Look at those pecs.

I find the robot cleavage to be a bit disturbing, and a little strange given the Victor's protruding chest, and its distinctive kite-shield pectoral. The overall shape is there, but the contours seem off. I do like the effect of the layered plates, though. The continuous shape and the sort of "tiered" effect do give the impression of the sort of continuous surcoat style pelvis without the tinker toy waist joint of the 3050 art (top right).


Right Arm



I think this looks pretty good. I really like that the hemispherical shoulder was retained, along with the slope of the pauldron, and again the sense of layered plating. If you look closely at the gun, it even retains the tiered Barrel -> Cowl -> Pseudo elbow assembly, down to the protruding plate. Probably my favorite component on the mech.


Left Arm

I don't really have any good comparison artwork for the left arm. The 3050U artwork is particularly awful.

My only concern is the division of the vambrace and the elbow plate. The Victor is most often portrayed with a bit of a spur. Still, the shoulder design is excellent, and the arm and hand have the appearance of an armored gauntlet rather than a giant meat fist, which is good.


Legs



The legs are kind of a big disappointment for me here. The 3025 art really highlights the massive calves into which the thighs are "slotted," again lending to the appearance of tiered, "worn" armor on the mech. Furthermore, gone are the distinctive round plates and the high knee assemblies. There are shades of them there, but unless you look at them side by side, you wouldn't be able to tell these were the Victor's distinctive legs. He's got a bit too much thunder thigh going on.

I do give a bit of credit. The leg structure is very similar to the Jagermech concept art, which is also produced by Independence Weaponry. Again, as with the head, I just feel that a chance was wasted here to introduce some unique visual elements. Are they saving all the curved lines for Clan Mechs? Or is the Kit Fox going to have a rectangle welded to the front?


Overall Grade: B

THe silhouette is good, and the overall feel of the 'mech's aesthetics are great. It really looks distinct from the Atlas or the Highlander, with all its layered plates and tapered torso. However I feel that an opportunity was kind of missed to introduce new aesthetic elements into MWO's visual lexicon. The abandonment of the spurred joints and the lackluster treatment of the distinctive leg plates and recessed, all-glass bubble canopy seem like wasted chances to make this 'mech stand out.

[Lokust Davion]

if this keeps up i bet the timberwolf aka mad cat will not have a rounded cockpit either.

[FupDup]

Lokust Davion, on 03 June 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

if this keeps up i bet the timberwolf aka mad cat will not have a rounded cockpit either.

A Timbie Wolf without a rounded cockpit would be like an Atlas without a skull head.

[WolvesX]

PGIs artwork team is just awesome, every mech (but the spider) gets a A++ from me.

(Just my personal opinion!)

[Felbombling]

The work that FlyingDebris did on the Victor is two hundred fold better than those years old line drawings. Mind you, I thought the work that Dwayne Loose did for the 3025 Technical Readout all those years ago was fairly impressive... for the time. Take another look at that concept art... the Victor looks like a lean, mean fighting machine. I am sorry, but your critique is misplaced.

[Ryllen Kriel]

I think the Victor looks great, but the leg design is a weak point for me as well. I am looking forward to piloting one, I give it a grade of A of a possible A++.

[GreyGriffin]

StaggerCheck, on 03 June 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

The work that FlyingDebris did on the Victor is two hundred fold better than those years old line drawings. Mind you, I thought the work that Dwayne Loose did for the 3025 Technical Readout all those years ago was fairly impressive... for the time. Take another look at that concept art... the Victor looks like a lean, mean fighting machine. I am sorry, but your critique is misplaced.

Don't get me wrong. I think the overall design of MWO's Battlemechs is pretty amazing. We have a good looking Jenner, and that's a miracle. I'm just interested to see something more interested than "beveled octagon" on one of a 'mech's most distinctive body parts. I'm curious to see if the art style will be different between factions, 'mech manufacturers, and how the art will be kept fresh as more 'mechs are introduced.

[General Taskeen]

I agree that everything doesn't need to be blocky in every piece of art and the Mech models. I feel too much of classic looks are becoming Lostech. At the very least let me buy the original Victor shredder cockpit for MC yo. Why can't we have roundier/elegantly crafted Mech beauty yo. No, let's stick some blocks on there and sharp edges.

Edited by General Taskeen, 03 June 2013 - 06:44 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

There artists have really improved the looks of them mechs. The old artwork just looks silly for most mechs. So glad they have a good team of artists and designers.

[Bishop Steiner]

While I agree with a part of your critique (the missed opportunity for different elements to be styled in n the Victors Head/Canopy), I feel it to be misplaced as to where. Simple fact is, the new version looks far better than the fishbowl the original had.

That said, I do really think they need to hire under-artists for Alex, because his designs have too similar a DNA across the board, which bothers me since they represent mechs from dozens of planets, designed literally CENTURIES apart, for differing cultures, needs and tech and engineering levels.

The Victor just happens to be one of the ones I think he got spot on, along with the Catapult K2 and Hunchbacks.

Where I feel he ran out of inspiration, at least for a bit was the Jagermech (the flattened canopy looks horrible) Blackjack (anorexic Jager) and Flea (just... BORING). I should give deeper critiques, BUT this is not he Fan Art section, where that would be appropriate. And I am too tired.

[GreyGriffin]

Quote

Jagermech (the flattened canopy looks horrible)

The Jagermech is an interesting case study. Most of the Battlemechs are using aircraft or ground vehicle sized cockpits, the Jagermech is commonly portrayed as having a turret that encompasses its entire torso. In trying to approach it in a realistic fashion, creating an aperture that offers peripheral vision recessed into a flat panel with weird phalanges on either side, it's just come out looking not right.

I personally also think it looks butt ugly, but the Jager is a butt ugly mech. That's ok. Not everything in BTech is beautiful.

Quote

Blackjack (anorexic Jager)

I'm going to disagree here. The Blackjack has very similar arms, but there are a lot of distinct features. The high-riding cockpit "tower," the donut/potbelly midsection, the much lankier legs, and the jet intakes and huge bulky shoulders. More could have definitely been done with the arms, I think, and that's where the big similarities lie with the Jager. But to be fair, they are very similar mechs in silhouette, what with the Jager's big radar tower.

Quote

Flea (Just... BORING)

I think the Flea is actually interesting. It's the bare minimum of what a 'mech can be - a box on legs with a couple lasers sticking out. I think I like it, I think it should be a bit less leggy, but otherwise alright.

Quote

The Victor just happens to be one of the ones I think he got spot on,

Like I said, I don't think the Victor looks bad, I just feel like it's missing a lot of its most distinctive features. What about it really makes you look at it and say "That is a Victor."? I like the shape of the head and the arms, and the silhouette, which are probably the most important parts, but I feel it's lost a lot of the charming details that would take it from a reasonable representation to "spot on."

[SgtMagor]

I happen to like Mwo artwork, the mechs look like massive robotic futuristic war machines what more do you want.

Edited by SgtMagor, 03 June 2013 - 11:18 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

The original victor has absolutely no redeeming qualities. It's like the original commando. You can't even tell what direction it's looking.

Removing the glass bowl was a good decision. I thought this was a pretty mech mech at first, but it's grown to be my third favorite redesign, along with the atlas and awesome.

[Iacov]

that's no analysis...that's personal opinion...

[Kyynele]

Lokust Davion, on 03 June 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

if this keeps up i bet the timberwolf aka mad cat will not have a rounded cockpit either.

Considering that the Catapults in the game look better than any Catapult ever, and those are usually depicted with similiarly roundish cockpits, if the Timber Wolf gets as good treatment, which I expect it will being such a high-profile clan mech, I'm not going to give a **** if it has a rounded cockpit or not.

[Wolf Ender]

GreyGriffin, on 03 June 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

Are they saving all the curved lines for Clan Mechs? Or is the Kit Fox going to have a rectangle welded to the front

i think it would be really cool if all the clan mechs had curved lines and smooth panels. a big departure from the original designs yes, but it would make them look more alien compared to IS mechs

[DaZur]

IMHO... I believe all MW:O mechs will have angular intersections. Spherical, convex and concave surfaces automatically invoke a higher poly-count and I suspect they are trying to maintain an arbitrary performance ceiling.

In other words... "yes" the Timberwolf will not have a spheroid torso / cockpit.

Edited by DaZur, 04 June 2013 - 08:51 AM.

[General Taskeen]

Vassago Rain, on 03 June 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

The original victor has absolutely no redeeming qualities. It's like the original commando. You can't even tell what direction it's looking.

Removing the glass bowl was a good decision. I thought this was a pretty mech mech at first, but it's grown to be my third favorite redesign, along with the atlas and awesome.

How can you like the awesome when it is a fat freaking toad? Atlas and Victor, fine, they look close enough. Absolutely though the Awesome is the worst Mech and model in this game, wider than a Stalker, Highlander, and Atlas. TT Awesome friggin' trumps it.

DaZur, on 04 June 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

IMHO... I believe all MW:O mechs will have angular intersections. Spherical, convex and concave surfaces automatically invoke a higher poly-count and I suspect they are trying to maintain an arbitrary performance ceiling.

In other words... "yes" the Timberwolf will not have a spheroid torso / cockpit.

Then why are weapons circular... and not squares, hum?

Edited by General Taskeen, 04 June 2013 - 08:53 AM.

[DaZur]

General Taskeen, on 04 June 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

Then why are weapons circular... and not squares, hum?

A weapon barrel (is cylindrical and as such is relatively efficient in that the length of the barrel is comprised of paired polygons and can be scaled indefinitely without invoking performance penalties. (A 8-sided cylinder is comprised of 16 polygons not counting any chamfer or end-cap.)

A half sphere would require roughly 2 to 3 times that count to maintain smoothing groups (so it's looks like a smooth surface and not blocky)...

Once you start cutting into a spherical surface to add detail and or stuff like windows... your polygons really start to add up.

Edited by DaZur, 04 June 2013 - 09:26 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

GreyGriffin, on 03 June 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

The Jagermech is an interesting case study. Most of the Battlemechs are using aircraft or ground vehicle sized cockpits, the Jagermech is commonly portrayed as having a turret that encompasses its entire torso. In trying to approach it in a realistic fashion, creating an aperture that offers peripheral vision recessed into a flat panel with weird phalanges on either side, it's just come out looking not right.

I personally also think it looks butt ugly, but the Jager is a butt ugly mech. That's ok. Not everything in BTech is beautiful.


I'm going to disagree here. The Blackjack has very similar arms, but there are a lot of distinct features. The high-riding cockpit "tower," the donut/potbelly midsection, the much lankier legs, and the jet intakes and huge bulky shoulders. More could have definitely been done with the arms, I think, and that's where the big similarities lie with the Jager. But to be fair, they are very similar mechs in silhouette, what with the Jager's big radar tower.


I think the Flea is actually interesting. It's the bare minimum of what a 'mech can be - a box on legs with a couple lasers sticking out. I think I like it, I think it should be a bit less leggy, but otherwise alright.


Like I said, I don't think the Victor looks bad, I just feel like it's missing a lot of its most distinctive features. What about it really makes you look at it and say "That is a Victor."? I like the shape of the head and the arms, and the silhouette, which are probably the most important parts, but I feel it's lost a lot of the charming details that would take it from a reasonable representation to "spot on."

The BJ was a generalization. A lot of the art around this time frame seemed to skimp his usual level of details for a lot of relatively plain surfaces.

As for the Jager, whilst cartoony, I think the basic look in MW:Tactics is about spot on. I think the simple move of a cockpit bulge and slightly bigger arms would have made the Jager look quite awesome, tbh.