51 replies to this topic

[The Morrigan]

Why no love for my Cataphracts?

340XL is your friend if you plan on being that man. Sides rarely get blown before center, twist or not.

[DodgerH2O]

Personally I've found XLs tend to work well in:

All light mechs.
Trebuchet builds that either are A] Fast or B] Long-range
Cataphracts and Catapults if it brings you about at least 75-80kph and you can torso twist
Awesome 9M
other Awesome models, unless you're amazing at torso twisting and lose your sides before your center regularly.

I would (almost) never put an XL in:
Hunchbacks. Any of them, though the SP might be better off than the others.
Slow Cataphracts or Catapults (except the CTF-4X to fit big ballistics)
Non-Awesome assault mechs.

Edited by DodgerH2O, 09 June 2013 - 08:10 PM.

[ThePieMaker]

All lights = good for XL
Cicada = good for XL
blackjack = bad for XL
Cent = bad for XL
Hunchback = bad for XL
Treb = good for XL
Dragon = good for XL
Catapult = good for XL
Jagermech = bad for XL
Cataphract = bad for XL
Awesome = bad for XL
Stalker = bad for Xl
Highlander = fair for XL
Atlas = bad for XL

[Krazy Kat]

The centurion D and the trebuchet 3C can be good with a very large XL engine. Both have max engine size of 390!

[Takony]

I just want to confirm from my own experience that the Trebuchets are indeed very good with XL engines, the trick is that the engine must be at least 300XL, else you are too slow and can't effectively avoid/spread damage.

Note that Trebs are almost as large as an assault mech in scale which is mind-boggling, but I don't think PGI will ever do anything about the bogus mech-scale, so just get used to it.

[Shiro Matsumoto]

ThePieMaker, on 09 June 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

blackjack = bad for XL

Ah... what?

Edited by John McFianna, 19 June 2013 - 04:08 AM.

[Xenosphobatic]

In my experience, 'Phracts are bad for XL's just because you should have enough tonnage for a decent STD engine without going the XL route. Add in the survivability aspect and it seems a bit silly to run an XL, sparing running a ballistics heavy mech (ie: 4X). I also find that the extra slots are REALLY useful.

[ZeProme]

Hmm, I don't have much experience with heavy, assault and light mechs but generally XL engines are great for mechs with hard to hit side torsos and big center torsos like the catapult, dragon.

If you want to brawl or survive longer, use STD engine. For anything else, use an XL for more stuff to put on.

[GRIMM11]

I put XL's in mechs that have their best weapons lying in a side torso. My atlas runs an XL, but I put almost 90% of my armor in the front to counter act anyone thinkng they will take me down quickly. On top of that I have the speed, and also a guass rifle with 3 LG pulse lasers. Just watch for those lights and protect your ***.

[B0oN]

Dragoon20005, on 07 June 2013 - 12:45 AM, said:

would using a XL engine in the highlander 733P a bad idea?

Just try it out for yourself, maybe you can handle it, maybe not.
Depends on too many factors to be answered straight away.

[mbebe23]

ThePieMaker, on 09 June 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

Awesome = bad for XL

Awesome AWS-9M = good for XL360+

[Drollzy]

The Morrigan, on 09 June 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

Why no love for my Cataphracts?

340XL is your friend if you plan on being that man. Sides rarely get blown before center, twist or not.

Finally another good pilot out there!
The cataphract does very well with an XL in the right hands, your travelling at 86kph with a 35 pinpoint alpha and jump jets, mate, you pick your fights and if your an ******* its a great platform for kill stealing >)

The HGN also benefit from XL's as well as the Victors in sniper mode the HGN tops out at 65kph and the Victor 82kph both with pinpoint alphas.

It all depends on your play style, your question should not be focusing on what variant suites an XL. The question you should be asking is what Build type benefits from an XL.

The answer is very simple if you are LRDF (Long Range Direct Fire), Support Fire (LRM BOATS etc) then an XL is beneficial it equates to better speed and more firepower and ammo. Obviously close range brawlers stick with STDs.

Even a LRM Boat Stalker is OK to have an XL because you should not be in direct fire and rain the pain from a secure position it enables you to have enough ammo for those 60 plus missile aplhas for the full round. Having said that I cant stand LRM boats and never play them myself I leave that for the noobs that cant line up a shot.

Anyway I meander... Long range support/direct fire think about XL's ...Short Range Brawlers Forget the XL... Pew Simples Pew Pew

[Drollzy]

Xenosphobatic, on 19 June 2013 - 04:22 AM, said:

In my experience, 'Phracts are bad for XL's just because you should have enough tonnage for a decent STD engine without going the XL route. Add in the survivability aspect and it seems a bit silly to run an XL, sparing running a ballistics heavy mech (ie: 4X). I also find that the extra slots are REALLY useful.

Totally agree with you Xeno... Although I have my Ilya with STD engine and 3D with XL... and play them both very different tactics.

A very good tactic in competitive is having all your mechs with STD's that way you are all moving together and lay down more dmg collectively because you can survive as a team longer. We see this tactic used effectively by the SJR team who are dominating most of the comps.

[Rando Slim]

Regarding mediums, its a hard call with blackjacks, you need speed, and BJs cant fit very big engines in them anyway, and you basically have no arms so your torsos are very vulnerable to being side-torso killed with an xl engine. But then if you don't use an xl in it you basically can't equip jack **** as far as weapons go, unless you sacrifice so much speed that you go as slow or slower than most heavies which is stupid. BJs are oddballs for sure, I have elited two of them and I gotta say I like other things a lot better and I get side torso killed a lot. I still have some good games in my BJ-1 and my BJ-1x don't get me wrong they can be fun though. Trebs in general I think are good for xl engines, the big arms often get blown off but until then protect your side torsos well enough to use xl engines. Again you want speed, and you really don't have enough tonnage to play with to use a standard engine that will let you go fast enough to be viable. You will sissy slap like a 4 year old girl (or a spider) with a std 300 in it, and be as slow as a cataphract with say a std 250. So yea xl engines on trebs. In general I don't understand how people get away with not using xl engines on mediums, I just can't stand being slow, because really if your gonna be going anything less than about 90 kph in a medium, you should just pilot a heavy, especially considering most Dragons and Quickdraws can still go over 90 AND pack decent firepower. So yes use Xl on Dragons. don't know about anything else yet other than obvious choice of always using them on light mechs.

Edited by Scrotacus 42, 08 August 2013 - 10:52 PM.

[Koniving]

Phashe, on 05 June 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

I'm looking for a comprehensive list of what chassis are "best suited" for XL engines, and what chassis are "bad" for XL engines. Factoring in things like hit boxes, size of side torsos, suseptability to damage, speed tradeoffs, and loadout capabilities.

For the Kintaros, there really is absolutely no risk in using an XL engine.

Koniving, on 08 August 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

This isn't 100% accurate, but it's pretty close considering I did this in 45 seconds.


Basically from the front, left, and right, your CT front can be hit. There is Zero risk in using an XL engine, but as a result there is Zero protection for your CT except that provided by your arms.

Golden Boy is also the slowest of all Kintaros (290 engine) versus the rest (360 engines). This means the Golden Boy is the worst one to use for brawling. It makes up for this by having 65 total missile tubes available. Most other Kintaros are listed as having 26 to 28 tubes.

I kid you not I run 2 armor on the rear side torsos. Never once had them damaged.
Barely get any damage on a front side torso.

Koniving, on 07 August 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

I had Christopher King take a snap of my Golden Boy next to an Atlas. Though the Treb is almost as tall as an Atlas as shown in a past image dump of my Treb versus an Atlas, it turns out Goldenboy is quite a bit shorter, but significantly wider than a Treb. The Kintaro's CT is approximately as wide as a Trebuchet's entire torso.

Spoiler

This is gonna take some getting used to.

My Treb behind an Atlas.

Spoiler

[Bluecricket]

The general rule of thumb is that any brawling fit should use Standard engines if possible, and longer-range builds may be able to get away with XLs. If you can fit an unnecessarily large XL engine in a variant, give that a try. Some exceptions apply.

• Any light can and should use XL engines when possible.
  
• Cicadas should also use XLs. Slightly fatter, but gotta go fast.
  
• Blackjacks are a tossup; both are viable. Depends on role/fit. Dies to CT loss more than sides.
  
• Centurions should generally not use XLs if possible due to huge side torsos. Exception is Cent-D with a 360++ XL engine.
  
• Trebuchets are a tossup; both are viable. Depends on role/fit, sides are large.
  
• Hunchbacks should always use standards. Almost always lose side torsos first, even in a 4SP.
  
• Kintaros should use XLs because the sides are tiny and the CT is laughably huge.
  
• Dragons should use XLs because the sides are also tiny and the CT is even more laughably huge.
  
• Quickdraws are a tossup; both are viable. Lean towards XL; you'll die to CT or double leg loss more than side torso loss.
  
• Catapults depend on build. AC20 builds need standard, everything else can get away with XL. You die too fast regardless.
  
• Jagermechs are a tossup; you need an XL to run double large ballistics but the side torsos are extremely open.
  
• Cataphracts should use standards when possible. Double Gauss needs XL, nothing else does.
  
• Awesomes can get away with both because they're terrible
  
• Victors should generally use standards, XLs if you stick at least 360++ in there, otherwise not worth it. Wide sides.
  
• Stalkers should always use standards. The sides are the first to go on a Stalker.
  
• Highlanders are a tossup; both are viable. You will generally die to CT loss rather than sides.
  
• Atlas should always use standards. Sides are also often the first to go as well. You will be ridiculed if you get caught in a XL Atlas.

Edited by Bluecricket, 09 August 2013 - 05:18 AM.

[NickFury271]

Jackpoint, on 05 June 2013 - 05:26 AM, said:

For me, the best is any light mech and the worst is the Catapult, doesn't matter what you do in a pult to avoid damage if your rolling an XL your free meat for the grinder, if you don't get headshot within the 1st 5 minutes of a game.

I have to disagree with this comment on the Catapult. The side torsos are much harder to hit then CT. In the several hundred matches I have played in my 3 Cat variants with an XL 300 engine I have never once died by losing a side torso. 99% of my deaths have been CT kills which engine type does not mater. I have been killed a few times by alpha strike to the cockpit because even the cockpit is a much easier target on the Cats then the side torsos.

[Charons Little Helper]

I'd always go XL with a Victor and grab the biggest engine you can. After all, if you aren't playing a Victor to be a speedy assault - you might as well play a Highlander and be beefier.

[heleqin]

Atlas, Stalker, and Hunchback, in that order, worst Mechs for an XL. Just don't do it.

Catafracts are iffy. when i run mine with STD engine and get killed or take really heavy damage i would say i loose the side torso's at least 75% of the time. when i load out a big XL and gain a lot of speed and torso twist I seem to take all CT damage, and probably only lose the side torso 30% of the time. its weird.

i've never had an issue running an XL in a blackjack, and like a light mech, they're so fragile that anything that takes a side torso is probably going to just kill you outright XL or no XL.

i like running XL engines in my Centurions, but i also don't use the face-hugger zombie build, so the XL lets me fit a good sized ballistic and still have good speed. you still zombie like crazy due to the tiny side torsos and huge arm stumps.

Dragons and Catapults have incredibly tiny side torso's and take XL engines very nicely, and really need an XL to mount sufficient weapons, ammo, and heatsinks to actually impact the game. the same is true of all the lights and the Cicada. though the Commando is dramatically more likely to lose a side torso than any of the other lights.

[Nebelfeuer]

Bluecrickets post matches my observations quite excatly.