44 replies to this topic

[aniviron]

Don't fight ac40s.

[Modo44]

The borders of the fracking battle are never far enough, was my point. The cities/canyons/hills ane not that spacious in the first place, and they contain enough cover to force me to close.

As to "don't follow the pack", well, then you just get singled out to die. Or, you find yourself the last one alive, because the fracking AC40 tore up half your team in a minute.

Edited by Modo44, 05 June 2013 - 08:58 PM.

[Revorn]

Train to move, for avoiding get hit, Stay with your Team, Train to get more benifits from Cover. You cant always survive but you can train to better your Changes.

If you often become a Target of an AC40 Pilot, you can use this in advantage for your Team, by getting better in batteling AC40 Pilots and to lead thm into good Positions for your Team to shot him. Often AC40 Pilots are very focused on their Prey, they want this Kill realy hard and you can use their Focused Mind to lead them into a Trap.

PS: Standing close to the AC40´s Schoulder is often a good Way to avoid a Hitt. Be Close to your Friends, but be closer to your Enemys.

PPS: Play an AC40 by yourself to learn more abou their weaknesses. Study them, and you will see you can learn to handle them.

Edited by Revorn, 06 June 2013 - 02:14 AM.

[PPO Kuro]

Keep distance if able, if LRMs are available in team get ppl to bombard him (probably won't destroy him, but less armour is easier kill).

Any ways just shoot him from a distance. Getting one of those Mechs up close and personal is usually not a happy experience.

I like these builds, they're pretty nasty, but not all powerful. And 2 x Ac20 are a (sorry for the pun) blast to use!

[deff lizzard]

XL engines are nigh-universal - I'm one of the very few AC/40 jager pilots that doesn't use one. I've gotten quite a few kills off one ML and one AC/20.

Legs are universally your best bet. I only run 20 armor in the legs, and that's pretty common. Combine with ammo explosions...just rip both legs off if you have the alpha to do it in a couple of quick strikes.

Speed and range are your best friends. Always remember: The Jagermech is a prickly specimen, and it is not advised that you hug it. This will only make it kill you faster.

[jper4]

i seem to come up against the smart ac/40 jager pilots. they tend to do what everyone is saying us mediums need to do. they wait til the fight begins, then pick something that's fighting that and open fire. being in a light or medium if you're helping your teammate attack that stalker the ac40 pilot is going to say "ooh a distracted one shot kill" and pick you over the bigger mech because they know if they land that shot you're either dead, crippled and/or running for your life. they still give me trouble for that reason- especially on my slower mediums. faster ones i can outrun their twist to some degree where they waste ammo in my wake but if i find if i do anything but the circle that gives them enough time to get me lined up no matter how much i swerve. changing speeds works sometimes but dangerous if their shots are landing just behind you.

i use a 4ML ac20 setup with a std engine myself. still have that 40pt alpha (in a few seconds) but aren't useless when the ammo runs out and taking out the side torso doesn;t take me out of the fight. and i've found if i fire the 4MLs first the other guy tends to think i'm a light or medium and ignores me until the ac20 hits them.

Edited by Tanar, 08 June 2013 - 02:54 PM.

[SolCrusher]

AC40 + 4ML (60 dmg) is one of my favorite mechs to run. I usually walk away from a fight with 2 - 4 kills. With SS available I really don't have much to worry about now, I always have situational awareness. I fire at anything that is activating SS. So when I see both an arrow and the SS radiation, I know I can turn and have an open shot. Now if that little thing is a small mech flying my way, I'll about face and typically end the Jenner or raven. I'm always on the lookout for distracted pilots, anything with their back turned to me gets a full alpha and falls over dead if they run XLs. I'm patient and run a very low amount of ammo, I run full armor, XL engines, SS, Extended range senors, and use the shift key a bunch to make all my alphas count.

So while some AC40s run around blowing their load every chance they get, I wait, I wait for that in opportune power down, I wait for that circling Atlas, I wait for that distracted medium, I wait for that other AC40 jager. Patients pays, and when I'm the last on the field, I have ammo.....

[Gralzeim]

Most of my deaths to dual AC/20 Jagers on my Hunchback have been when I round a corner and one's there in my face. Pop. Got my cockpit torn off that way once, I was surprised, and didn't react quickly enough. If I see one at range, I can keep away from him, even if he breaks line of sight.

It's rough when you get ended so quickly, but the same thing would happen if I rounded a corner to find a large laser or PPC Stalker facing my way. I might escape but I'll for sure have lost an arm or a leg, and probably a side torso as well.

At least Jagermechs that run dual AC/20s aren't as hard to kill as Stalkers. Even if they have full armor, they -need- to run an XL if they want decent speed and ammunition, and Jager side torsos aren't exactly tiny.


Edit: As SolCrusher points out, the Seismic Sensor module means you'll have to be more careful, as it currently negates sneaky tactics against an alert pilot using it. Aggrivating, but it doesn't show mechs standing still. That can be used. And a medium can still outmaneuver a Jagermech. Better twist and turn speeds, better acceleration/deceleration. Make use of it.

Edited by Gralzeim, 09 June 2013 - 08:16 AM.

[mailin]

Communication is your friend in taking out these bad boys. When you see one, target him and see where he's damaged. Then depending call out to your team mates to focus on either his side torsi or legs. They tend to go down fast when several mechs are focusing on them and everyone is shooting for the same area. Your team can expect some losses, but not as many as you would have if he were left alone.

Edited by mailin, 09 June 2013 - 10:52 AM.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

All you can do is hope PGI realizes AC40s and other troll builds detract from gameplay without and real drawbacks, and fixes/balances their open weapon slots system.

[Just wanna play]

should a medium really be finding a way to fight something with that much tonnage on it?? i say just get the big guys to take care of it (heavies and assaults) i always help out my medium buddies by taking out ac40 jagers (i do this when running my phract awesome or atlas) , they are just so squishy

TheFlyingScotsman, on 09 June 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

All you can do is hope PGI realizes AC40s and other troll builds detract from gameplay without and real drawbacks, and fixes/balances their open weapon slots system.

i wouldnt say no disadvantages....... its players that you need to hope for, they just need to learn how to deal with these builds, it isnt that hard

they enhance game play and encourage team work imo

[PhoenixFire55]

Target him immidiately so your teammates know he is there. Don't look at him when he fires and try to keep him between yourself and your buddy Highlander/Stalker PPC boat so he can one-shot him through rear armor.

[w0rm]

Best advise I can give you as someone who pilots an AC40 with a standard, stay the hell away if you are alone, report me in the team chat with the assigned ABC and tear me down with focussed fire or long range support from LRM's and ppcs.

[SolCrusher]

When I'm bored and wanna have fun in my AC40, I run around legging people. Sometimes my team wins sometimes they lose when I do that. But it's awesome to see gimped mechs hobbling.

Best advise is call in support and have the team focus AC40 mechs down. I never enter the brawl first, so you'll encounter me back in the back so everyone is busy like I said before patients pays...

[BindMind]

Don't play a blackjack or run...

Seriously. Blackjack is squish squish. You shouldn't be anywhere near an AC/40...

[Bagua]

Well, generally it is a stupid idea to face a dual AC20 monster with a medium Mech alone but if you like to try it with Blackjacks than this BJ-1 or this BJ-1X might be something for you.

Play it with speed, seek cover, circel dance and jump (not with the X1 ofc) over the enemy to land on buildings or obstacles, hide, change position frequently. Do not give him an opportunity to hit you and stay away form the firering arc of those AC20.
Try to leg an enemy first then melt through the back armor of the inmobile Mech. Cats are no problem when you get 'em from a higher position.

Edited by Bagua, 10 June 2013 - 02:58 AM.

[Dalziel Hasek Davion]

The only predictable defense against a high alpha build is a team, focus fire, and good 'Mech rotation to keep vulnerable 'Mechs out of harm's way. Seeing 2xAC20s on a build boots it up to the top of the threat list alongside other 40-60 point alphas. If you can't evade it - take it down hard as a group.

Attack options for a Jagermech enemy:
Legs - where ammo is likely to be kept (maximum 60 armour)
Arms - disable the AC20s directly - no ammo here (maximum 40 armour)
Side torsos - destroy XL-equipped variants, sever the attached arm, possible ammo (40/20 armour depends on design)
Centre torso - destroy engine, possible ammo (62/22 armour depends on design)

My assessment of this is that attacking the rear side torso is preferred, and then rear CT, and then front side torso. Legs may be worth a shot to see how much armour has been put there - as ammo is stored there in most designs.

If you have an MG, LBX-10 or flamer - it's an idea (perhaps not a great one) to target locations already stripped of armour to try and get that crit.

Edited by Dalziel Hasek Davion, 10 June 2013 - 05:31 AM.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

Just wanna play, on 09 June 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

should a medium really be finding a way to fight something with that much tonnage on it?? i say just get the big guys to take care of it (heavies and assaults) i always help out my medium buddies by taking out ac40 jagers (i do this when running my phract awesome or atlas) , they are just so squishy


i wouldnt say no disadvantages....... its players that you need to hope for, they just need to learn how to deal with these builds, it isnt that hard

they enhance game play and encourage team work imo

It isnt a matter of teamwork and whatnot. I kill AC40jagers in my gauss/3ml bj-1 all the time. But when it comes to mediums and lights, all it takes is one wayward shot from AC40 to be effectively taken out of the game. Even larger mechs are thoroughly armor-crippled by AC40 shots.

It also isn't just the damage that detracts from the game. It's the mentality of boaters that they can roll into anywhere, get a kill, and then don't care if they die. They're just blunt lawnmowers that reliably get free kills, but themselves will usually die right after.

It's annoying and it's no more strategic than strapping a mountain lion to your back and then tackling someone you hate, resulting in both your deaths.

Edited by TheFlyingScotsman, 10 June 2013 - 08:53 AM.

[Vodrin Thales]

lorrylemming, on 05 June 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

I play in medium mechs. Arguably the poorest weight class but most of the time I feel like I am very capable of helping my team. I would not say I am good at the game but certainly come in the top half most games.

The only mech that I cannot deal with is AC/40 cats and jagers. If I am in a large group with my team, the more intelligent players running these builds single out any mediums and paste me very quickly.

I find this to be the biggest problem in the blackjack as it is not as fast as the other medium class mechs.

What should I do? Hopefully there are other options instead of running away.

You really need to stay out of his optimal range at all costs (that means outside of 300m). You are still faster than they are, even in a blackjack (with a reasonable build anyways), and you need to use that to your advantage. Only attack at close range when you are pretty sure they will not get a shot off in return, and take advantage when they are distracted by a larger mech. Never stay in site long enough to become the primary target. All this takes practice, but it is doable.

Dalziel Hasek Davion, on 10 June 2013 - 05:31 AM, said:

The only predictable defense against a high alpha build is a team, focus fire, and good 'Mech rotation to keep vulnerable 'Mechs out of harm's way. Seeing 2xAC20s on a build boots it up to the top of the threat list alongside other 40-60 point alphas. If you can't evade it - take it down hard as a group.

Attack options for a Jagermech enemy:
Legs - where ammo is likely to be kept (maximum 60 armour)
Arms - disable the AC20s directly - no ammo here (maximum 40 armour)
Side torsos - destroy XL-equipped variants, sever the attached arm, possible ammo (40/20 armour depends on design)
Centre torso - destroy engine, possible ammo (62/22 armour depends on design)

My assessment of this is that attacking the rear side torso is preferred, and then rear CT, and then front side torso. Legs may be worth a shot to see how much armour has been put there - as ammo is stored there in most designs.

If you have an MG, LBX-10 or flamer - it's an idea (perhaps not a great one) to target locations already stripped of armour to try and get that crit.

A lot of dual AC20 mechs skimp on leg armor. It's always worth one alpha to find out.

[Hot Kid]

"Think like the enemy to beat the enemy, try to get inside his mind!"

Ok, i got no skill, no aim so i take the biggest guns i can find. Just for the rare times i hit something i want to do some damage.

So most of the AC40 are pretty bad and they cleary try to compensate some real life issues with their big guns. That's what you should use against them.

First: Rightfully insult them/ their family / their religion for abusing the badly balanced weapons-distribution in this game (PPCs on lots of light mechs? You must really hate the original tabletop PGI...). Hurt by the truth they will rage and make some more mistakes.

Second: Use cover (Hills, Rocks, your teammates) an try to flank'em.

Of course most of these guys would abuse every misbalanced item in the game (they want to pwn!!!!) so they got this f***ed up seismic-s***. But if you stay close to your team you will probably get lucky. Because once they got one target they get the mother of all tunnel-visions (they need the kill to feel like a decent olayer) so they won't look at their mini-map.

After you rip their' back open and stomp'em to the ground, repeat the first step.

They ain't that smart, so you can outsmart them.