102 replies to this topic

[Vodrin Thales]

EyeOne, on 05 June 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

I don't have a huge problem with the Jagerbombs (as I call them). The Jager is a ballistics mech and dual 20s is a valid use for it. It makes a lot of compromises in order to pull it off and they tend to die pretty easily. It's not too hard to get outside the twist arc of the Jager where you are safe.

It's certainly not easy mode. I've had plenty of AC20 rounds go whizzing by my head.

Pretty much this. Many have very weak leg armor, and all of them are vulnerable to pinpoint shots to the side torsos. They may be able to core and kill you in 2-3 salvos, but you can do the same to them if you do not panic. Sounds like a fair build to me.

[DarkDevilDancer]

Really?

So you think a slow mech with paper thin side armour and a short max range is OP...please go delete your account this game is not for you sir.

[Bagheera]

Ryebear, on 05 June 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

ANY PLAN DO GO AFTER DUAL AC/20S AS THE NEXT UNINTENDED BUILDS

Yeah.

Shoot out their XL from > 270 meters.

Worked fine just moments ago.

[Sephlock]

My post got disappeared!

[aniviron]

Focus fire on a side torso. They have to run an XL, and the side torsi on Jagers are mad squishy.

Unless you're in a light or medium mech. Then just run, very far, very fast, and don't move in a straight line. That won't guarantee you won't die, but you have better odds than if you try to fight.

[Gallowglas]

Really? I'm sorry, but unless I just let a ac/40 Jaeger get in close (which is my fault), they just don't impress me that much. Oh sure, that 40 damage alpha sounds really nasty until you consider that other builds can put out the same amount of damage or more. I'm not even talking about assault mechs either. You can outfit a Cataphract or Catapult to get the same speed and better range. Heck, I can do it in my Ilya with a standard engine, too. The only advantage you're getting is pinpoint damage and that comes with a HUGE tradeoff: namely that you're a sitting duck at medium to long range. Secondly, if you see one and aren't fishing for XL hits from range, you're doing something wrong.

Honestly, I think I've killed far more of them than have killed me, but I suppose YMMV.

[BlackBeltJones]

I do love this forum simply for the fact I hear (valid) complaints about issues I never experience. The AC/40 has never been an issue for me but it is a worthy foe. I remember getting to a point playing Counter Strike (a decade ago) where I no longer hated or got frustrated by hackers, I reached a point where I wanted any challenge someone could give me. I am not suggesting hackers are an issue here but the infancy of MWO will offer a variety of players new, unseen and unimagined challenges which often manifest in very entertaining rants here. My suggestion to the OP is to seek the dual AC/20 and find your method to defeat it! - MWO may have many faults but it uniquely offers a greater variety of challenges to overcome than most games I've ever seen. Personally I love sucking at things because it usually and immediately presents an obvious path to improvement. I think chasing your bane in MWO can be far more rewarding and most certainly something most games do not offer.

[Ryebear]

My issue isnt that it is this impossible to beat build. Its symptomatic of a whole bunch of issues rolled into one; pin point accuracy, boating for competitiveness' sake, balancing for skill, general effect on fun in-game, failure to meet the goal of a solid BattleTech experience in a multiplayer MechWarrior game etc.

I dont bring up PPC/Gauss sniper combos because you dont have to go far to find someone bringing them up, or jump sniping & ECM before them because they have been addressed, and the seismic module has been mentioned as next in line to be tweaked.

Just because something is possible in game does not make it righteous and true, this game is beta and in flux, there is work to be done to balance it, I think dual AC/20s should be included in 'too effective' stack due to their massive effect on the outcome of a match just like Machine Guns, LB-X/10, Narc, Flamers etc are in the 'not effective enough' pile.

Edited by Ryebear, 05 June 2013 - 09:50 PM.

[Purlana]

If it really is so OP, why do I only see 1 or 2 people use it per match?

[Koniving]

From Sarna.
--------------------------------------------------------------
The Autocannon is a direct-fire ballistic weapon, firing HEAP (High-Explosive Armor-Piercing) rounds at targets either singly or in bursts.
Different manufacturers and models of autocannons have different calibers (25mm-203mm) and rates of fire. Due to this, autocannons are grouped into generic "classes" of autocannons with common damage ratings, with Autocannon/20s doing massive damage while having very short range.
An example of the rating system: the Crusher Super Heavy Cannon is a 150mm weapon firing ten shells per "round" while the Chemjet Gun is a 185mm weapon firing much slower, and causing higher damage per shell. Despite their differences, both are classified as Autocannon/20s due to their damage output.
-----------------------------------------------------

Care for multi-shot AC/20s that spread the damage more?

Edited by Koniving, 05 June 2013 - 09:57 PM.

[Deathlike]

So... you complain about something that gets eaten alive that is:

1) Short ranged
2) Is usually poorly armored
3) Limited to two mechs, of which one is the most common and has squishy torsos... the other that is naturally slower than molasses due to not being able to use XL AND has a wickedly easy to shoot CT.

Next thing you'll tell me that common mech that usually runs them is OP somehow right?

Too much whining, not enough dakka.

Edited by Deathlike, 05 June 2013 - 10:11 PM.

[Escef]

Ok, HERE is a very basic, straight forward dual AC20 Jager.

Speed? Ok, it's a little faster than stock, yeah, so? It isn't even as fast as a stock Dragon or Treb. It has ho-hum cooling, not enough ammo, the cannons only do full damage out to 270 meters, past 600 meters it isn't even a credible threat. Oh, yeah, and it packs an XL engine, concentrate fire on a side torso and you can have this thing down in under 10 seconds.

They're scary if you turn a corner and run into one. I PUG exclusively, so a lack of voice comms means scouting is of questionable effectiveness, and I almost never have warning of them unless I spotted it earlier. You guys dropping in teams shouldn't have much trouble with them at all. Me? I've stumbled into engaging them at near point blank range a few times, and regardless of who survives the winner does not walk away in any condition to screw with anybody else.

[LordDante]

@ op if u really think they are a problem go buy one then play it. try to remember how u died the most. next time u see an ac 40 try to create the situation u died in the jager. i drive one of this nasty steamhammers http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4484ae72d512307 and the top three things that kill me is 1. Bad situational awarness ! 2. PPC/Gaussrifels 3. getting the **** focused out of me. the AC/40 Jager is the top priority Target in every match. U might get kills with it but o will most certainly die! and u r prey to any light/scout pilot that doesnt uses a toilet brush to clean his teeth ( aaaargh a spider, kill it plz killt it ) this thing has so many trade offs its a one way ticket deluxe .

[BUDFORCE]

YEah I dont have a problem with them.

I have never piloted one myself, although I have used AC/20s on other mechs and quite frankly find them terrible weapons to use.

They are slow to fire (as in a delay from hitting the trigger to it shooting) the projectile flies slowly, they have poor rate of fire, poor range, very heavy, very heavy ammo.

Yes they do MAHOOSIVE damage, but you really gotta get caught with your pants down to get hit by these because if you are playing properly, cycling targets, keeping a mental note of what enemy mechs are where etc you shouldnt let them catch you out.

Plus as other people have said running 2 AC20's basically nerfs the hell out of the mech using them in all other ways, just keep moving around, keep hitting them, even in an assualt mech its not that hard to avoid AC20 rounds.

I would say if anything the dual guass jagger is the one to watch out for, piloted properly I think they would be something to fear more.

EDIT: Further to that people need to learn to adapt instead of complaining and hitting the nurf button.

So ok, you think AC/20 jaggers or overpowered? Image a team of 8 of them on the other team? Scary?

Now image you take a team of 8 PPC Cicadas and keep range on them at 800m with your speed, they wont even touch you and if you focus fire you will annihilate them.

Edited by BUDFORCE, 05 June 2013 - 10:35 PM.

[Nauht]

I used to play an ac40 jager. Loved the damage, loved the kills, loved its nickname boomjager or jagerbomb.

But then a single particularly skilled Spider pilot with one ERPPC schooled me and schooled me good in river city. He kept me at range in the water and kept weaving through the buildings when the fight went there.
Mind you up until that point I loved facing lights. They would explode nicely, even on long range maps - but only the ones that decided to come up close and tried to touch my arse with their little lasers.

But that Spider, man that guy was good. Super accurate with his PPC, knew his mech and terrain inside out. He kept me dancing to his tune the whole fight, never presenting me with any worthwhile lead shot. I wish I got his name.

He inspired me to try a Spider and now my jager sits in the mechlab collecting dust. Incidentally that cost PGI money cos I was gonna buy Firebrand but not anymore.

[627]

AC40 is not op, in no way. Biggest problem is indeed the focus fire. Anyone who sees a ac40 jager calls it out and it becomes top target, like the splatcat in its best times.

This is not because the 40pinpoint, others can do that too or more like 4ppc stalkers. But jagers are more mobile and easier to take down. if you have a 4ppc stalker and a jagerbomb, you take out the jager first or you're pretty dead.

In my shiny new firebrand i try something else, i take 2xAC10 with 2xML. What's interesting is the fact that i survive (a bit) longer because i am not a high threat to the enemy, i had plenty of atlas and highlanders literally ignore me and shoot my ilya teammates instead. Yes, AC10 is no AC20 but it's not a bad weapon and it hurts, too.

[Harmin]

I agree with the posters who quoted Sarna that autocannon 20s should fire multiple rounds which total up to 20 damage. Like a pulse laser.

I don't see the AC40 JM6 as destabilising abuse though, it's not insta-death unless you're in a light and then speed and maneuverability as always are your best friends.
.
-Armin

[Augustus Martelus II]

Lol wait till they release a 100 tons mech with a lot of ballistic points....imagine 3 ac/20 or even worst...

[Nauht]

Augustus Martelus II, on 06 June 2013 - 12:13 AM, said:

Lol wait till they release a 100 tons mech with a lot of ballistic points....imagine 3 ac/20 or even worst...

And it'll only be effective against other assaults. Something that big won't have the torso twist capability or speed to shoot anything that's fast and maneuverable. The jager only becomes truly potent against lights with the 2x torso twist bonus to speed and turning arc.

[w0rm]

And there we go: The next QQ-train.