18 replies to this topic

[scJazz]

I've been searching for an answer but just can't seem to get anywhere. The Forum Search just gives me a muddled mass of macros, jam chance argument threads, and crazy... sorted in near random fashion. So I must now abandon my self-help and just straight up ask...

How do they work?

NOTE: Questions answered in fine detail... thank you... no more posts plz unless you need to pad

Edited by scJazz, 15 June 2013 - 11:34 AM.

[KableGuy]

Introduced in 2640 by the Terran Hegemony. The Ultra Autocannon/5 is an upgraded version of the standard Autocannon/5. Utilizing a different loading mechanism, the Ultra Autocannons are capable of maintaining a substantially increased rate of fire over traditional or LB-X autocannons at the cost of higher heat and the risk of jamming. Of course, the rapid-fire autocannons require a much larger supply of ammunition to maintain their rate of fire. This high dependence on ammunition limits the effectiveness of the weapon. Being of a lower caliber, the Ultra Autocannon/5 has an increased range at the cost of reduced damage over higher-caliber versions.

Edited by BitMonger505, 15 June 2013 - 04:51 AM.

[scJazz]

BitMonger505, on 15 June 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

Introduced in 2640 by the Terran Hegemony. The Ultra Autocannon/5 is an upgraded version of the standard Autocannon/5. Utilizing a different loading mechanism, the Ultra Autocannons are capable of maintaining a substantially increased rate of fire over traditional or LB-X autocannons at the cost of higher heat and the risk of jamming. Of course, the rapid-fire autocannons require a much larger supply of ammunition to maintain their rate of fire. This high dependence on ammunition limits the effectiveness of the weapon. Being of a lower caliber, the Ultra Autocannon/5 has an increased range at the cost of reduced damage over higher-caliber versions.

Astonishingly accurate post with zero useful data... excellent!

[Redshift2k5]

The Ultra-AC5 (also known as a UAC) fires a single 5 damage bullet when you fire it's weapon group. If you hold down the fire button, or press it again within the cooldown (1.1 second) it will fire another 5 damage bullet. When fired a second time it has a 25% chance to jam, and will be inoperable for 5 seconds.

Here is the Smurfy database. http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/ Many items have additional data available if you mouse-over the weapon name as well as any little i icons.

Macros generally concern themselves with maximizing the rate of fire of the weapon without actually triggering the 'second fire' shot, such as having 2 or 3 UAC5s and using tightly controlled firing to fire them in sequence without triggering a jam.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 15 June 2013 - 06:54 AM.

[KableGuy]

okay then maybe this is more your speed, Pull trigger, big effin round goes down range, bad guy go splat with red mist.

[scJazz]

BitMonger505, on 15 June 2013 - 04:58 AM, said:

okay then maybe this is more your speed, Pull trigger, big effin round goes down range, bad guy go splat with red mist.

At the risk of repeating myself

Astonishingly accurate post with zero useful data... excellent!

Redshift2k5, on 15 June 2013 - 04:56 AM, said:

The Ultra-AC5 (also known as a UAC) fires a single 5 damage bullet when you fire it's weapon group. If you hold down the fire button, or press it again within the cooldown (1 second) it will fire another 5 damage bullet. When fired a second time it has a 25% chance to jam, and will be inoperable for 5 seconds.

Here is the Smurfy database. http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/ Many items have additional data available if you mouse-over the weapon name as well as any little i icons.

Macros generally concern themselves with maximizing the rate of fire of the weapon without actually triggering the 'second fire' shot, such as having 2 or 3 UAC5s and using tightly controlled firing to fire them in sequence without triggering a jam.

Astonishingly accurate post with ALL useful data contained. Yeah, I had looked at Smurfy and Mechromancer, searched Forums with UAC jam terms lots of answers there but it left me feeling unclear because of the date of the posts, etc. I only have enough CB to buy 2 of them for my mech right now and I did not want to buy them if they weren't going to behave as expected so I couldn't just get some and test.

Thanks Redshift

[Redshift2k5]

scJazz, on 15 June 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

At the risk of repeating myself

Astonishingly accurate post with zero useful data... excellent!



Astonishingly accurate post with ALL useful data contained. Yeah, I had looked at Smurfy and Mechromancer, searched Forums with UAC jam terms lots of answers there but it left me feeling unclear because of the date of the posts, etc. I only have enough CB to buy 2 of them for my mech right now and I did not want to buy them if they weren't going to behave as expected so I couldn't just get some and test.

Thanks Redshift

No problem. You should know by now that all you have to do is post here and myself or Koniving will answer

I prefer to use 2 in a group set to chainfire, macros be damned. I also have an additional weapon group with both of them on link fire for when I need more dakka at the risk of more jams.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 15 June 2013 - 05:29 AM.

[scJazz]

Redshift2k5, on 15 June 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

No problem. You should know by now that all you have to do is post here and myself or Koniving will answer

I prefer to use 2 in a group set to chainfire, macros be damned. I also have an additional weapon group with both of them on link fire for when I need more dakka at the risk of more jams.

I do know by now... heck I even checked to see if you were online!

[Wintersdark]

For a little more specific detail (with some repeated info):

The UAC5 is one of the best weapons in the game, ton for ton. It fires a 5 damage round with a 1.1s cycle time (note, not 1 second as stated above). You can entirely avoid jamming by either only firing when the weapon has finished it's cooldown - the red bar on the weapon display in the bottom right corner of the screen. Thus, to avoid jamming, you need to be sure to just tap the fire button, not hold it down - held down, the UAC5 will fire twice in a row every 1.1s, doubling it's DPS but with the 25% chance to jam with each doubleshot.

Even without firing double, though, it's easy to see why the UAC5 is very much superior to the AC5, which only fires every 1.5 seconds but is otherwise identical.

Many people do make macros to achieve this, so they can hold down a button and have the UAC5 fire every 1.1s for maximum DPS output with no chance of jamming, but you can absolutely do this by employing some discipline and just tapping your fire button after the weapon finishing cooling down rather than holding it or repeatedly mashing it quickly.

In short: If you don't fire it inside it's cooldown, it'll never jam. At 5 damage every 1.1s at very low heat and long range, it's awesome.

[Konril]

The Ultra/5 is a bit random, but really spectacular weapon. It has the ability to fire once during it's cooldown with a 25% to jam for 5 seconds. Given the normal cycle rate is 1.1 seconds, it's capable of doing a lot of damage.

For comparison purposes, a large laser will fire over 1.0 seconds and do 9 damage during this time. After that it goes into a 3.25s cooldown, so while it does 9 DPS during that one second firing, its average DPS is actually about 2.12 if you have the luxury of keeping it on target without heat problems.

The Ultra AC/5, if you hold the trigger has a 25% chance of giving you a 5 point shot then jamming. The other 75% of the time that 5 point shot is going to be followed by two more 5 point shots over the next 1.1 seconds, then another 75% chance for it to keep going. So depending on how long you can keep your aim on the target and plain luck, you can get a burst of 5 points (100%), 15 points (75%), 25 points (56%), 35 points (42%), 45 points (32%), or rarely even more. It will manage to push out 9.1 DPS until it actually does jam. Then it's 5 seconds to unjam before the next 1.1s recycle kicks in. I estimate it has an average DPS of 3.72 when ultra-fired.

It just isn't a newbie friendly weapon. Because you do need to hold it on target for a couple of seconds to get good results, it's not appropriate on jump-snipers (AKA "poptarts"). However once you are used to it, it is an incredibly powerful and versatile weapon that does very well in a brawl, counter-sniping, or even a hit & run city fight. Typically if you or the enemy has cover available, its an opportunity for the enemy to cool down to focus on those 1-3 second peeks to fire, but at the same time an opportunity for you to unjam to really take advantage of ultra fire during those 1-3 second peeks. 9 tons + ammo + 1 heat per 5 point shot means the weapon is very economical, weighing much less than similar gauss rifles or PPC & heat sink loadouts.

Edited by Konril, 15 June 2013 - 12:48 PM.

[scJazz]

Got it thanks everyone!

[Krazy Kat]

The UAC5 will sometimes jam on the first shot. I think this is because even if you quickly (tap) fire and release the game considers it to be two shots and jams on the second one.

If you chain fire two UAC5's and pause a bit between shots your chance of jamming is greatly reduced. Your rate of fire will be reduced by this.

If you chain fire three UAC5's (or two UAC5's and one other weapon) you will never jam! This is because there is a 0.5 second delay between chain fired shots. But your rate of fire will be reduced by this.

You can bind one mouse button to chain fire and one to group fire if you wish. Chain to reduce jam chance and get steady damage. Group to do huge damage but risk jamming.

[Koniving]

BitMonger505, on 15 June 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

Introduced in 2640 by the Terran Hegemony. The Ultra Autocannon/5 is an upgraded version of the standard Autocannon/5. Utilizing a different loading mechanism, the Ultra Autocannons are capable of maintaining a substantially increased rate of fire over traditional or LB-X autocannons at the cost of higher heat and the risk of jamming. Of course, the rapid-fire autocannons require a much larger supply of ammunition to maintain their rate of fire. This high dependence on ammunition limits the effectiveness of the weapon. Being of a lower caliber, the Ultra Autocannon/5 has an increased range at the cost of reduced damage over higher-caliber versions.

The downfall I see to this, is that the damage is not reduced even though the range is increased. According to that very lore compared to regular autocannons, the UAC/5 should fire smaller, weaker shots. Hence the skinnier barrel and revolving rotary appearance.

Lets say an AC/5 fires 1 shot and does 5 damage. The UAC/5 being a lower caliber is supposed to deal 2 shots to total 5 damage (2.5 each just as an example), per trigger pull (much more deserving of the tri-barrel mount it has) and firing twice (for a total of 4 shots) within a single recycle time. The benefits to this is we would get an even faster firing autocannon, a cooler sounding one, that's more inclined with lore and at the same time not overpowered or the "one goto" that outdoes the AC/20.

Of course, with lower caliber AC/5s by different manufacturers, they would do something similar but not as fast to breach (recycle, reload) and repeat (fire again). But other even lower caliber UAC/5s by the same manufacturers would be able to fire that much faster. Some as fast as miniguns but in bursts.

There's actually an AC/20 in Battletech called the Super Crusher Heavy Autocannon, which rapidly fires 10 rounds at 2 damage each, totalling 20 damage.

Great thing is a long while ago Bryan Ekman (creative director) said in response to a question that we'd eventually see these other manufacturers and variants on all weapons. This latest ATD may not have had an answer to my question, or much to answer for what I wanted to know about, but there were two things of merit to be heard.

One, a confirmation that variants are coming. Two, a confirmation that we have, to some degree, a small nod to MechCommander and older Mechwarrior games in the sense of actual objectives in the coming future.

Bryan Ekman, on 14 June 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

Biruke: Will the different manufacturers laser beams differ in color? Say now we have blue LL beam. Lutien manufacturers could make the LL beams violet, no?
A: It’s one idea we have, yes.


Mao of DC: Can you give us some insight of what you mean by "asymmetrical game modes". Is it simply 12 vs. 10 like you would find in a standard Inner Sphere vs. Clan encounter. Or will there be a number of types? Like assaulting a fortified position, or an ambush? For C.W. will there be a logical type, used for establishing a planethead? Around the barracks we call an operation like that as "making a hot drop". Will you be using new dedicated maps, or use any you have available?
A: Asymmetrical means each team has a different objective. Attack/Defend and Rush style modes best describe an asymmetrical mode.

I'm looking forward to it.

[White Bear 84]

Koniving, on 15 June 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

One, a confirmation that variants are coming. Two, a confirmation that we have, to some degree, a small nod to MechCommander and older Mechwarrior games in the sense of actual objectives in the coming future.

Ac/20 Firing ten burst rounds totalling 20 damage? That would be awesome!!

Cannot have enough dakka!

Like the reference to mech commander, loved that game and the missions were so much fun!!

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

ultra autocannons have a loading mechanism similar to semi/full automatic weapons. because the rounds are heavy, the combination of recoil and movement while firing will cause the rounds (or maybe even the spent casings to sometimes get jammed in the loading or ejection systems. for a regular firearm's case this usually means you have to manually clear the jam because the loading system is out of energy, but in mwo's case the logic behind unjamming on the field would probably lay with some sensors and motors that handle the loading and ejection process instead of a gas chamber and round recoil.

[Koniving]

White Bear 84, on 15 June 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

Ac/20 Firing ten burst rounds totalling 20 damage? That would be awesome!!

Cannot have enough dakka!

Like the reference to mech commander, loved that game and the missions were so much fun!!

Combat against timberwolves were fun there. But I favor the second one. With automatic defenses I hope MWO features something similar; sub points to defend or capture which will affect whether the main base's defenses will function or turn sides. It's my preference that there's multiple sub points which need to be protected or defended for these -- within reason to the map size. The smallest maps, for example, should not include such points. The largest maps should have several, bringing about either divided forces with grand small team combat or organized strategy.

I can picture a Sherlock Holmes moment. "Stage fire support lance. Send in diversionary scout. Scout deliberately gets seen by enemy guard. Pretends to be a noob. Lures guard away. Send in mediums to chase said guard into a dead-end. Fire support lance surfaces from above, rains death upon unsuspecting prey. Medium lance overtakes area. Assaults stage to guard it. Reposition fire support lance for the next ambush. Coin with catchphrase. Defeating these mechs was elementry, Watson."

[TheArcher]

Konril, on 15 June 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

So depending on how long you can keep your aim on the target and plain luck, you can get a burst of 5 points (100%), 15 points (75%), 25 points (56%), 35 points (42%), 45 points (32%), or rarely even more. It will manage to push out 9.1 DPS until it actually does jam. Then it's 5 seconds to unjam before the next 1.1s recycle kicks in. I estimate it has an average DPS of 3.72 when ultra-fired.

Actually, "full auto" has a DPS closer to 5.0. If you just hold the trigger down, the UAC/5 fires at an average rate of 1 round per second. So, from a pure damage perspective, it's better to let it jam and clear than to try to fire at exactly 1.1s between rounds. It's just a question of whether you want to have an unusable weapon for 5 seconds at a time.

http://mwomercs.com/...25#entry2341625

Edit: Konril is correct (below). I have emailed Support about it. I'll update the chart in the link.

Edited by TheArcher, 16 June 2013 - 06:18 PM.

[Konril]

TheArcher, on 15 June 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

Actually, "full auto" has a DPS closer to 5.0. If you just hold the trigger down, the UAC/5 fires at an average rate of 1 round per second. So, from a pure damage perspective, it's better to let it jam and clear than to try to fire at exactly 1.1s between rounds. It's just a question of whether you want to have an unusable weapon for 5 seconds at a time.

http://mwomercs.com/...25#entry2341625

I tried to check on that and, unfortunately, I think we found a bug. In the 'Testing Ground' that does appear to be the case. I have noticed in testing that the UAC unjams in 3 seconds. But that's not the case in a live fight. In actual combat it really does take 5 seconds for the cannon to un-jam. So the average DPS is closer to 4 than it is to 5.

Although I do agree that it is better to just ultra-fire it than to worry about timing your shots. That is more because of the fact that in live combat, the opportunity to just continually shoot a target until someone falls is few and far between. Concentrating your firepower when you have the opportunity to shoot does have an advantage over someone with a constant almost-literal DPS output. Hills and building can make a big difference.

[RF Greywolf]

I have just started running UAC/5's (with the purchase of the Jag-DD(Yeah Koniving I FINALLY finished the A!)) and I will tel you it is night and day between them and the AC/5's. They are just a better weapon for only a 1 ton difference IMHO. They still give the same results at long range sniping and can really save your bacon in a brawl. The jamming is only a nasty factor if you are caught in an open area when they jam, if you have cover your good.

2 cents, hope it helps!
Greywolf