33 replies to this topic

[Deathcap]

I am still seeing too many alpha snipers in games and not enough missile boats to counter them. I think the problem is that many players are running with 30-40 LRM builds and get frustrated when they cannot kill their targets. The way the current LRMs are balanced, you need 50-60 LRMs + Artemis + TAG to be effective.

As things stand now, there are three mechs that can run such a build effectively:
AWS-8R
JM6-A
CPLT-C4

All three of these mechs have the missile hard points, missile tubes, and energy hard points to be a deadly artillery mech on the field. My hope is that more people take a close look at these mech before they write off missiles as bad idea.

Even though jump sniping has been removed from the game, sniping in general is still very strong and will continue to be strong until missiles start putting them in check.

　

　

[Roland]

Missiles are not a counter to sniping.

How exactly do you think that missiles counter snipers?

[Sephlock]

Did you seriously forget the Stalker?

Also the Highlander with 4 missile slots.

[One Medic Army]

Roland, on 08 June 2013 - 10:52 PM, said:

Missiles are not a counter to sniping.

How exactly do you think that missiles counter snipers?

This, this exactly.
Snipers counter missile-boats, not vice-versa.

I still want more LRM boats, but only because I run this 3L build.

[jeffsw6]

During the third LRMageddon, between the age of PPC Highlanders and .. wtf is the current meta-game anyway, I'm not sure since I'm always on Canyon Network cussing because Stalkers can't climb the hills that other mechs can and so you spend half the match trying to get over a ******* ridge ..

ANYWAY, during the third LRMaggedon, I saw a Raven with an LRM20. We certainly do not need that again. LRMs are still broke as ****, just broken differently than they have been before. Maybe if they ever "work right," they will see more use without becoming totally dominant.

[Deathcap]

If missile boats are coring snipers in 2-4 volleys, the snipers will be more inclined to keep their heads down a bit more. It gives your team time to close in instead of getting derped before they engage.

Sheph

I did not incude the HGN-733 and the Stalker because while they can be effective at times, they do not have an optimal number of missile tubes. More tubes means a better grouping of missiles for a devastating volley. It also is more effective against AMS, as AMS will have less time to kill your missiles before they hit.

[BigMekkUrDakka]

lrm fire support mechs are small niche and there is wont be much of those anyway check sarna for more info, currently we have this type of mech almost in every weight class so why u asking for more? they all the same tbh

[CHWarpath]

Your lucky, if it was up to me I would ban missiles all together. Using lame skilless weapons is not healthy for a PVP game. If you have a problem with people sniping (they constantly missing anyway) get a brawler build and beat them down.

[Sephlock]

CHWarpath, on 08 June 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:

Your lucky, if it was up to me I would ban missiles all together. Using lame skilless weapons is not healthy for a PVP game. If you have a problem with people sniping (they constantly missing anyway) get a brawler build and beat them down.

I feel the same way, but banning an entire category of weapons is a bit much, especially since it would cause everyone to snipe again .

Edited by Sephlock, 09 June 2013 - 12:10 AM.

[Vercinaigh]

Deathcap, on 08 June 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

If missile boats are coring snipers in 2-4 volleys, the snipers will be more inclined to keep their heads down a bit more. It gives your team time to close in instead of getting derped before they engage.

Sheph

I did not incude the HGN-733 and the Stalker because while they can be effective at times, they do not have an optimal number of missile tubes. More tubes means a better grouping of missiles for a devastating volley. It also is more effective against AMS, as AMS will have less time to kill your missiles before they hit.

That's BS, the amount of dumb in this post hurts me, this is why the game goes to hell in a hand basket, they listen to people like this, Stalker has the MOST tubes of ANY mech in it's arms, 3H ranks in at -22-. Dear god man, gonna have to quit this game just to not read stupid every 5 seconds.

[BigMekkUrDakka]

CHWarpath, on 08 June 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:

Your lucky, if it was up to me I would ban missiles all together. Using lame skilless weapons is not healthy for a PVP game. If you have a problem with people sniping (they constantly missing anyway) get a brawler build and beat them down.

mmm lets see ... weapons that require skill in mwo .... mmmm ... none! whoa lets ban all current weapons and fight with melee weapons in 3pv YAY!

[Kanatta Jing]

CHWarpath, on 08 June 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:

Your lucky, if it was up to me I would ban missiles all together. Using lame skilless weapons is not healthy for a PVP game. If you have a problem with people sniping (they constantly missing anyway) get a brawler build and beat them down.

Low skill, good but not overwhelming reward weapons are essential to PVP games. Essential.

Ryu's Hadouken, Call of Duty's noob tube and Eve's Drake. Effective weapons that excel in ease of use must be made available in any game.

Essential!

[One Medic Army]

Also LRMs can actually reward coordination between multiple players well. They're not just a low skill weapon. They can be a teamwork weapon.

[Kaeb Odellas]

CHWarpath, on 08 June 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:

Your lucky, if it was up to me I would ban missiles all together. Using lame skilless weapons is not healthy for a PVP game. If you have a problem with people sniping (they constantly missing anyway) get a brawler build and beat them down.

LRMs absolutely require skill. They're arguably more difficult to use effectively than point-and-click PPCs and Gauss Rifles, since they move very slowly, require you to constantly face your target, and are only really effective against slower mechs moving in the open.

LRMs have several counters. Multple AMS systems near your target can severely reduce your damage output. ECM will prevent you from getting a lock unless you can TAG. Every mech gets a warning when LRMs are incoming, so they can easily step behind cover if it's nearby. You do not get such a warning when the 6 PPC stalker is lining up a shot on you.

Indirect fire requires constant communication with your spotter, otherwise you may be wasting ammunition on a hill or derelict building. Even direct fire requires trigger discipline, as you need to know which targets you can actually hit. Which ones will be able to reach cover in time? Will firing another volley be a waste of ammo?

Positioning and situational awareness are equally crucial. You need to be close enough to the enemy to ensure your missiles hit, but not close enough that you can't pull back when they advance on you. A surprise flank attack can ruin you, since you generally don't have much in the way of close defense and are a juicy target for the aggressive Light, Medium, or Dragon pilot.

Your post tells me you actually haven't spent much time using LRMs at all, and thus don't have any basis for an opinion.

EDIT: As an added not, in reply to the above posts, "Skill" does not refer simply to twitch shooter skills. Mechwarrior is a slower, more deliberate game. Positioning. Spatial awareness. Fire discipline. Movement and speed control. Torso twisting. These are all skills.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 09 June 2013 - 12:51 AM.

[El Bandito]

Deathcap, on 08 June 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

Sheph I did not incude the HGN-733 and the Stalker because while they can be effective at times, they do not have an optimal number of missile tubes. More tubes means a better grouping of missiles for a devastating volley. It also is more effective against AMS, as AMS will have less time to kill your missiles before they hit.

HGN-733 can have up to a total of 50 tubes--10 more than CPLT-C4 and JM6-A. Left torso has 20+10 and left arm has 10+10.
It is one of the ultimate LRM boats. I use Quad ALRM15 (shoots 45 missiles at once followed by 15 more) with 2160 missiles. Fun times.

Not to mention it has Jumpjets so you can do LRM poptarting. Just be careful not to be separated from your teammates.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 June 2013 - 01:45 AM.

[El Bandito]

For new LRM boats, I would suggest Archer (heavy), Bombardier (heavy), Dervish (medium), Longbow (assault) and Whitworth (medium).

Edited by El Bandito, 09 June 2013 - 02:00 AM.

[Kyynele]

Stalker 3H has 20 tubes in both arms + 6 tubes in both side torsos, resulting in a maximum of 52 missiles in one salvo

A1 still wins all boating contests: if you don't mind not having any armor and having one of the slowest engines possible, with not much ammo either, you can fit 6x LRM15 in it and fire 90 missiles in one salvo.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8a697f84843e176

[Bloody Moon]

Deathcap, on 08 June 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

If missile boats are coring snipers in 2-4 volleys, the snipers will be more inclined to keep their heads down a bit more. It gives your team time to close in instead of getting derped before they engage.

I've facepalmed so much on this... If missile boats are coring snipers in 2-4 salvos then they do the same to brawlers, guess which one of the two roles will go extinct faster.

[Lugh]

The counter to LRMs is cover and AMS

The 2nd counter to LRMS is MORE AMS and cover

You should never NOT have AMS on your mech.

End of story. I don't care what your build is you are letting your team (and yourself) take more damage than they have to because you think that the extra 5 points of pew pew in an alpha outweighs the 1100 damage that AMS will counter before it's out of ammo.

Edited by Lugh, 09 June 2013 - 09:39 AM.

[Roland]

Quote

LRMs absolutely require skill. They're arguably more difficult to use effectively than point-and-click PPCs and Gauss Rifles, since they move very slowly, require you to constantly face your target, and are only really effective against slower mechs moving in the open.

You're confusing skill with general effectiveness.

There are many cases where a target can avoid missile fire. This doesn't mean that the LRM shooter has skill.

Skill means that one LRM shooter would be able to hurt a mech, while a less skillful shooter would miss. This isn't generally the case with LRM's.