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Making Our Elo Ratings Public Would Help This Community Grow, And Help Us Better Conduct Balance Discussion


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#561 MnDragon

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 04:25 PM

View PostSybreed, on 17 August 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

hey I've got an idea, let's make our ELO public, BUT! Let's also make our salaries public.

Boy this should be fun, can't wait to see a top player boast with a mcdonald's employee salary :D

See? This is why ELO should remain hidden.
Everyone knows that ELO is inversely proportional to the amount of money you make. It also grows exponentially to the amount of time you have to spend at home alone. :( For those that support ELO being public...[redacted]

Edited by Egomane, 18 August 2013 - 02:51 AM.
CoC violation


#562 Sir Wulfrick

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 05:02 PM

Sadly, in sharp contrast to the old Mechwarrior 3 forum that I used to inhabit for quite a while in circa 1999 - 2001, the MWO forum (and indeed the internet in general) has a tendency to bring out the worst of forum warriors who seem to believe that ranting the loudest is guaranteed to result in being taken seriously by everyone else.

I admit that I came to this topic with grave suspicions. The OP's well reasoned and thoughtfull post makes some excellent points with which I have to reluctantly agree. That being said, were ELO scores to be made public this entire forum would likely implode from the sheer weight of trolling and elitism, justified or otherwise. That being the inevitable case, I'm forced to conclude that public ELO would be an absolutely abysmal idea.

Merely as an observation, many players who I'd acknowledge as being vastly above me in skill level (I'm nobody special at all unless we're talking Atlases :( ) spend far more time in the game than on the forum. Some of the more blunt and brashly vocal forum warriors here should perhaps ponder that fact.

#563 YueFei

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 05:08 PM

Instead of making everyone's ELO public, they should just give you the option to "publish" your ELO if you want to. Then those that want to show their ELO can do so.

#564 Funkadelic Mayhem

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 10:28 PM

LOL! You still believe in ELO? l I stooped believing in ELO when me and my older brother caught our dad putting the presents under the tree.

Edited by Funkadelic Mayhem, 17 August 2013 - 10:28 PM.


#565 GingerBang

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 10:46 PM

Well as long as we are playing necromancer today.


no, and i have one sentance to blow the whole "public elo" thing away.


some people play to win and others play to have fun.

A bad person playing to win at times may be equal to a fantastic person just playing for a laugh (IE 4 MG's on a spider). That alone completely invalidates ELO as a ranking system, let alone something for a forumwarrior to base their opinion on.

#566 Villz

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 10:58 PM

View PostGingerBang, on 17 August 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

Well as long as we are playing necromancer today.


no, and i have one sentance to blow the whole "public elo" thing away.


some people play to win and others play to have fun.

A bad person playing to win at times may be equal to a fantastic person just playing for a laugh (IE 4 MG's on a spider). That alone completely invalidates ELO as a ranking system, let alone something for a forumwarrior to base their opinion on.

Ranked and unranked que k go.

once you get to a certain ELO it should lock you out of the unranked que to stop ppl trying to "farm" noobs

#567 Jestun

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 01:21 AM

View PostVillz, on 17 August 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

Ranked and unranked que k go.

once you get to a certain ELO it should lock you out of the unranked que to stop ppl trying to "farm" noobs


Yeah.

The playerbase is too high.

We need to add more splits.

3rd person vs 1st person.
Instant battles vs CW.
Regional servers.

These splits are already coming and so far today you have also requested:
A new TDM gamemode (AKA hunt the powered down light)
Splitting the playerbase by ranked vs. unranked.

#568 Villz

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 01:51 AM

View PostJestun, on 18 August 2013 - 01:21 AM, said:


Yeah.

The playerbase is too high.

We need to add more splits.

3rd person vs 1st person.
Instant battles vs CW.
Regional servers.

These splits are already coming and so far today you have also requested:
A new TDM gamemode (AKA hunt the powered down light)
Splitting the playerbase by ranked vs. unranked.


just make the que a checkbox and not a toggle. Select as many or as few que's to search as possible.

In King of the Hill mode just have the base cap not end the game but light the remaining enemy mechs up like they are under a UAV. Or make arty start to drop around the map outside the hill safe zone forcing a fight.

Heaps of VERY easy work arounds.....

And hell there is always ANY ...

#569 Iskareot

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 07:01 AM

View PostPEEFsmash, on 06 June 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

I wanted to take a short break from discussing token balance changes and talk about something broader.

I believe that Elo ratings should be made public, and here is why.

Starting Point 1: Right now, very few players are of publicly-known skill-level. Players in the top clans or players who have done well on the leaderboards are known by some, but in general, nobody knows much about eachother.

Starting Point 2: There is a vast variety of players in this game, from very low-level players with no real videogaming background to the tippity top players with heavy competitive gaming backgrounds.

Starting Point 3: Balance discussions on the forums and elsewhere are being conducted with a random mix of low, mid, and top level players.

Starting Point 4 (the most important one!): The game is entirely different for low level, mid level, and top level players. What might be an extremely good technique at low levels (such as lights circle strafing heavies/assaults for example) becomes a somewhat risky maneuver at the mid level, and becomes utter suicide instant death at the top level. The game is entirely different at the various levels, and this leads to players at lower levels believing that they are all good players because they win half of their matches, they do well with whatever builds they are using, but because Elo is private, they don't know that they are playing primarily against lower-quality opponents (or getting paired with higher-quality teammates), and the main problems they face are due to their own poor mechanics (like bad aim or movement control). Players of different levels are playing different games, in a sense.

Conclusion: The input that players give in the forums is a horrid mishmash of tons of different players at different levels each arguing back and forth about certain balance changes that will affect them all differently. In discussions like these, EVERYONE MIGHT BE RIGHT, RELATIVE TO THEIR OWN LEVEL OF PLAY! So we get things like "I have just as much fun in my jump-jet light as I ever have! Doesn't really bother me" at the same time as "I am now unable to excecute extremely important maneuvers such as pinpointing certain components on my ascent in my jump-jet light because of screen/reticle shake." The former statement I have seen come from several low level players, and the latter statement is the consensus of all of the top light pilots I have spoken to. Each may be right, but they are really living in different worlds, and are each reporting from a play level with each its own issues.

Solution: Make Elo public. If player Elo is public, as players (and as developers) people will be able to look at someone's input and take it for what it really is. If we are trying to fix poptarting issues, we can see what is bothering low-level players, what is bothering top-level players, and see if there is a simple solution that helps both. (Hint: It's buff SRM damage!) The forums make it seem as if there is genuine disagreement among all players, and everything is a mess, but I do not believe this to be the case. In talking to many other top competitive unit members, the screen shake is a universally bad or at least unnecessary addition. However, it remains very popular among low and mid level players. I do not mean to generalize and say "only bad players want jumpjet shake," but there seems to be a strong divide between what seems imbalanced among low and mid level players, and what seems imbalanced to top level players. The reason isn't because of elitism or attending the "Church of Skill" but it is because there is such a vast difference between what happens in low elo pug games, and what happens in competitive tournament 8 man games. What is good and bad is genuinely different at different levels.

Public Elo would let us understand each person's opinion as it is. If we are wanting to make the game more accessable to new players or more enjoyable for low level casual players, then when someone with low Elo posts something in the balance forums with, people could better use that information to cater to that crowd. When there is an issue at the top competitive level, we would know exactly who has a high Elo and is qualified to speak on the subject. High elo players talking about Low elo issues helps nobody, and makes low-level players feel like their input doesn't matter. On the other hand, Low elo players under the illusion that they are good because of their 1.1 win ratio should not be clogging discussion of balance at the highest competitive 8 man level, because their win ratio is a function of playing against other lower level opponents.

Leaving things as they are right now will make balance discussions continue to be counterproductive, with nobody knowing where their opinion is most relevant, and choosing to simply insert it everywhere. Issues like "Jumpjet shake" and "Heat containment" are far different issues at different levels, and sometimes call for different or creative solutions. Throwing everyone into a pile and letting them go at it, each person not recognizing the perspective of the other (and most players not even able to know where their own perspective lies!) is leading to the awful forum debates that reduce to little more than attacks on fellow players (which I am myself guilty of!) Please, PGI or whoever is in control of this sort of thing, make Elo public.

EDIT: Another fantastic discussion on this topic: http://mwomercs.com/...o-game-balance/


Separate Clan stats from Pug stats -- fine Separate Premade matches from pugs -- fine Separate Mastered Mechs from Non-Mastered Mechs -- fine Separate HERO mechs from Non-Hero Mechs -- fine FIX ELO system -- fine. Once all of this is in place and the choice to be in a pug or premade loaded match and without a doubt people would like to see their stats. But to even compare any of the stats without all things being equal at this point is a waste of Dev time. Seeing "LeetHaxorsXOXOXO" in his Dragon Slayer killed "Joe" in his Trial Raven does not impress anyone.

#570 Appogee

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:42 AM

Elo changes are based on match wins and losses.

My win rate improves when I play with my friends as a coordinated team, and then plummets when I PUG solo. I suspect many would have the same experience.

It wouldn't be a valid comparison to compare my Elo to a player who always plays with a coordinated clan/groups.

#571 mack sabbath

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:50 AM

I walked away from WoW after seven years with no regrets. One of the things about MWO that made me very happy, was that unlike WoW, "gearscore epeens" were nonexistent.

Going the way of public ELO would make the forums and much of the game itself, a horrible place to enjoy gaming or commenting on the game to other players.

Thanks. I'll pass on more gearscore and find another game to play should it become implemented here.

Nothing to hide, I was a competent raider and way above average PvP player in WoW, whose score was always adequate, yet I still despised that system. It destroys communities.

My 2 cents.


***edited for typos

Edited by Die Primate Die, 18 August 2013 - 08:51 AM.


#572 Eddrick

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 09:30 AM

#1. Developers can already track ELO. They already know where everyone stands. #2. Making ELO public would begin prejudging, without ever being given a chance, regardless of circumstance. Also, peoples opinion just being ignored, and an overall take over by the Elite. Where no one else's opinion matters but theirs. I left the last online game I played because of the Elitists jerks. I am currently playing the game on a computer that doesn't met GPU requirements (I hardly get over 10 FPS on low). Which gimps my performance. Also, effecting my ELO. When I get a good computer, my performance will skyrocket. But, I would already be judged on the ELO I got before I got the new computer. See the problem with making ELO public?

#573 BookWyrm

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 09:43 AM

I think the need for epeen measuring will be satisfied to some extent by community warfare and tournaments in the future. We're currently playing in an uncompetitive exhibition type environment. If you want rankings as a measure of skill then it should be based only on the games played where everyone knows they are competing.

#574 YueFei

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 09:44 AM

Smart players will still take into consideration the ideas from low-ELO players. Just like Bill Walsh paid close attention and took notes when John Reed gave a talk about Football clock management, but when John Reed gave the same presentation to high school football coaches, many simply walked away because they couldn't see past the fact that John Reed was just a youth football coach. Bill Walsh didn't care about the qualifications of the man, he was smart enough to see that John Reed's ideas were good ones that he could incorporate into his own strategy. And that kind of attitude and openness to ideas made the 49ers the team of the 80's.

#575 Budor

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 09:47 AM

Elo doesnt mean **** because its not seperated for grouped/solo drops.

#576 Chavette

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 12:17 PM

View PostSybreed, on 17 August 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

hey I've got an idea, let's make our ELO public, BUT! Let's also make our salaries public.

Boy this should be fun, can't wait to see a top player boast with a mcdonald's employee salary :P

See? This is why ELO should remain hidden.


Thats a brilliant idea!!!

#577 kaffeangst

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 12:37 PM

I don't mind, show my ELO.

Other games - Battlefield 3 for example - have public statistics, why not MWO?

Edited by kaffeangst, 18 August 2013 - 12:39 PM.


#578 Nik Van Rhijn

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 01:18 PM

From wading through the 14 pages of this it has become very clear.
1 Elo should be published immediately.
2 All those with an Elo below X (which will include me) should leave immediately so as not to clutter up the game and forums for the elite.

#579 Selitos

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 01:22 PM

No.

#580 M e g a M a n X

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 09:27 AM

View PostSybreed, on 17 August 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

hey I've got an idea, let's make our ELO public, BUT! Let's also make our salaries public.

Boy this should be fun, can't wait to see a top player boast with a mcdonald's employee salary :D

See? This is why ELO should remain hidden.

View PostChavette, on 18 August 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

Thats a brilliant idea!!!


NOW WE'RE TALKING...

AGE too, and educational attainment, in short, Real-Life ELO

boy this is fun! "Shades Boy" lol





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