73 replies to this topic

[yngvef]

I don't believe this will be p2w, because the devs have stated that they are trying to avoid this.

But keep in mind: the devs are not making this game as a charity or as a kindness to the nice people on this forum.

They intend to make money from it, so you should expect that players that NEVER pay any real cash will not get the full gaming experience. It might take quite a long time to earn enough cbills to buy a full lineup of your favourite mechs without paying to speed things along.

Edited by yngvef, 09 June 2012 - 02:13 PM.

[Freyar]

I don't want to bash on anyone, but are there any Free-to-Play game developers out there that rush in and admit their game is "Pay-to-Win"? A lot of the times we hear it over and over that a game isn't pay-to-win despite in-game experience saying so. I am happy that the devs are trying to keep it balanced, but when it comes to either letting the game fail and waste investment dollars versus making something people will pay for, we'll see the latter option more and more, especially if it jolts revenue.

[NeonKnight]

One comparison I have not seen here is that of APB Reloaded. This is a Free to play game, with very, very, VERY little pay2win that I can really see.

I Pay money, and to put it in terms of the OP, If I put $1000 into the game, I would get:

• $1000 of premium or many many years of premium (premium means on a mission I get extra money and ranking, or in MWO terms extra C-Bills)
  
• Extra Vanity Clothing for my characters (no in game benifit beyond WOW YOU HAVE A TOP HAT)
  
• Perma-Weapons (most weapons are rented via ingame currency and unlock eligibility for a period of 9 days. Premium weapons are permanent or semi permanent based on spending)
  
• Unique Vehicles which again have no major in game benefit. other cars maybe faster, more manueverable, hold more etc. premium cars have their same pros & cons.

So, as said, I could see (say for example) a Firefly as a Premium Mech one could pay money to access earlier than in game.


I see the above as how I would like to see MWO emulate.

Edited by NeonKnight, 09 June 2012 - 03:40 PM.

[Kasseopea]

Just saw the 1500 key topic, guess i wont be able to play it the next time. Really a pity, had some free days and hoped to test it.

[Freyar]

NeonKnight, on 09 June 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

One comparison I have not seen here is that of APB Reloaded. This is a Free to play game, with very, very, VERY little pay2win that I can really see.

OCA Whisper
OCA Nano

Others Argue
-- Colby CSG PR1/2

[GrizzlyViking]

eZZip, on 09 June 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

Really? It's not obvious that you wouldn't advance faster than just the added rate from having a premium account?

Is it? Show me the evidence to back that up.

[GrizzlyViking]

yngvef, on 09 June 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

I don't believe this will be p2w, because the devs have stated that they are trying to avoid this.

But keep in mind: the devs are not making this game as a charity or as a kindness to the nice people on this forum.

They intend to make money from it, so you should expect that players that NEVER pay any real cash will not get the full gaming experience. It might take quite a long time to earn enough cbills to buy a full lineup of your favourite mechs without paying to speed things along.

What they have said is that people will be able to by Mechs/weapons. What people will not be able to buy is pilot skill levels. It has been stated that this is how they will balace the game. Pilots with low skills in the best Mech they can buy are not going to do very well. However, a F2P players that plays daily and levels his pilot skills up may not have the best Mech, but his higher level skills will give him an advantage over the guy that just signed up and and bought the best Mech he could get. Yes, the guys that have monthly subscriptions will be the best in the game, because they will be the people playing all the time and the people with the best Mechs. But new pay players will only have the best Mechs with low pilot skills. So the pay-to-win that most people fear will not be the case. The pay-to-win players in this game will be the players that pay and level their skills to max, which is going to take lots of regular game play over time. Also, they have said that pilots that are not played will lose skill over time. The people that may suffer more are those that do not have the time and/or desire to play very often. Top players in MWO, as the Devs have described it, will have to earn their skill to be the best of the best. Simply having the best paid for stuff alone will not make anyone the best of the best. Only regular game play and leveling your pilot skills accomplishes that.

[Freyar]

GrizzlyViking, on 09 June 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

TEXT

In short, the idea is Equipment Advantages are intended to counter skill advantages, one is purchasable one isn't. Which.. seems a bit like admitting there will be a method to purchase "power" items.

[GrizzlyViking]

Freyar, on 09 June 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

In short, the idea is Equipment Advantages are intended to counter skill advantages, one is purchasable one isn't. Which.. seems a bit like admitting there will be a method to purchase "power" items.

Power items that do not hit thier targets are not very useful. The to-hit chance will be increased with skill. Less skill means that even the most powerful of weapons does not hit as consistently, therefore rendering powerful weapons much less effective with unskilled pilots. Weapons that do not hit their target are not going to help much no matter how powerful they are.

Edited by GrizzlyViking, 09 June 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[NeonKnight]

Freyar, on 09 June 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

OCA Whisper
OCA Nano

Others Argue
-- Colby CSG PR1/2

True, but A free Player can still win against them. They do not gurantee a win

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

time vs money is not pay to win

paying for exclusive game influencing power over anybody who doesn't pay is pay to win

in the latter scenario skill has nothing to do with it. if you put two equal skilled pilots in a duel and give one of them overpowered goods guess who is going to win

this is ultimately why min/maxing occurs, because games like this ultimately come down to a dps/hitpoints race.

By giving all mechs the same items and making class size a role advantage regardless of size you vastly reduce the number of inferior builds.

naturally everybody will gravitate to what's the most powerful, you can't stop it unless you can forcefully set rules on the competitive circuit with coding

but I digress, Piranha, I would appreciate it if you make balance and bugfixes a priority over new content, particularly with weapons (always happens with damage vs armor over hitpoints models) since mechs are pretty self explanitory

Edited by Battlecruiser, 09 June 2012 - 06:05 PM.

[Freyar]

NeonKnight, on 09 June 2012 - 05:52 PM, said:

True, but A free Player can still win against them. They do not gurantee a win

Sure, a free player can win against anything some of the time, a portion of the time. The problem is weapons and equipment akin to the OCA/Colby CSG tilt the game in favor of the guy who paid for it. Pay to Win isn't a literal term here, it's a notion that you're able to buy an item that impacts the outcome of your games.

[GrizzlyViking]

Battlecruiser, on 09 June 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

time vs money is not pay to win

paying for exclusive game influencing power over anybody who doesn't pay is pay to win

in the latter scenario skill has nothing to do with it. if you put two equal skilled pilots in a duel and give one of them overpowered goods guess who is going to win

However, to date we are told that all weapons will be available to all players in MWO whether they are F2P or not. Not only that, but all weapons deal the same damage even if they are mounted on the smallest Mech in the game. So far as we know, the only advantage to paying will be that a person will be able to have and stable more Mechs and variants and will be able to afford to swap weapons more often with more available C-Bills. This does not necessarily make a paying player more powerful in any given match, it just gives them more choices than a F2P player. A decent F2P player that knows how to use his Mech should have a chance of winning in any match as long as his skill sets are at or above the level of the player he is fighting.

Additionally, we do not know if their is a 1v1 option. So far there has not been anything to indicate that there is. Whether there is or not, match making by Mech tonnage will also serve to level the playing field between paying players and F2P players. Based on what we have been told, there is no significant reason to be overly concerned about people being able to pay to win. The Devs have specifically designed the game to address such issues and they are tweaking them all the time to ensure the balance of the game. Pay players will have better opportunity to win with more choices, but more choices does not guarantee a win here.

Edited by GrizzlyViking, 09 June 2012 - 06:18 PM.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

that's pretty much what I said.

as long as the argument remains time vs money, any advantages gained through spending can be met with time. only when there are pay only uber weapons or equipment does it become a problem to the competitive spirit of the game

[GrizzlyViking]

Battlecruiser, on 09 June 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

that's pretty much what I said.

as long as the argument remains time vs money, any advantages gained through spending can be met with time. only when there are pay only uber weapons or equipment does it become a problem to the competitive spirit of the game

Oh...I misunderstood...my apologies.

Edited by GrizzlyViking, 09 June 2012 - 06:43 PM.

[Rabid Dutchman]

BuSH, on 08 June 2012 - 05:03 AM, said:

Stop complaining and play the game.

I'm TRYING! But they won't send me a beta key

[Sativacuity]

The way I see it, it's not even Pay-to-Win, it's Pay-to-not-get-Steamrolled. In WoT, you buy a tier 8 tank for about three reasons:

1) You run heavies regularly and need to keep up the deficit
2) You want a competitive edge without having to play for months on end to get a ****** tank anyways. (Tiger P, I'm looking at you.)
3) You want to be able to have a fighting chance VS higher tier tanks. I daresay any player out there travels up the tier levels simply for the joy of new tanks. Honestly, I enjoy the M18 Hellcat above all other tanks, and it's merely a tier six. You want to level up based on the subconscious hope of more credits and better penetration, armor, and damage. Pay for a tank and you've got all this without grinding for weeks at a time.

The biggest factor in MW:O will be time. As has been stated numerous times before, one will not pay for enhanced weapons. One will pay for completed playtime that would otherwise be impossible to get. Thus, payment would not be to win, but to keep from being destroyed.

[GrizzlyViking]

Karganeth, on 09 June 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

The way I see it, it's not even Pay-to-Win, it's Pay-to-not-get-Steamrolled. In WoT, you buy a tier 8 tank for about three reasons:

1) You run heavies regularly and need to keep up the deficit
2) You want a competitive edge without having to play for months on end to get a ****** tank anyways. (Tiger P, I'm looking at you.)
3) You want to be able to have a fighting chance VS higher tier tanks. I daresay any player out there travels up the tier levels simply for the joy of new tanks. Honestly, I enjoy the M18 Hellcat above all other tanks, and it's merely a tier six. You want to level up based on the subconscious hope of more credits and better penetration, armor, and damage. Pay for a tank and you've got all this without grinding for weeks at a time.

The biggest factor in MW:O will be time. As has been stated numerous times before, one will not pay for enhanced weapons. One will pay for completed playtime that would otherwise be impossible to get. Thus, payment would not be to win, but to keep from being destroyed.

I have not seen any post that indicates, even remotely, that players will be paying for "completed play time" in MWO. Can you post a link to this information please?

Edited by GrizzlyViking, 09 June 2012 - 07:10 PM.

[Blackfire1]

Why is this thread still alive and with semi serious posting. . .

[GrizzlyViking]

Blackfire1, on 09 June 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

Why is this thread still alive and with semi serious posting. . .

While I cannot be sure, I propose that it primarily has to do with a lack of BETA keys being possessed by those of us that are doing the posting.